The good the bad and the ugly???
11/09/2018 10:44:02 AM
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Now that Cross country season is behind us and the focus shifts to track for most of the coaches. How do you grade the season?. How did Mshsaa do? If 5 classes are approved does it start immediately in 2019 season or this has to wait a year or 2 to go into effect?? What could you have done differently? Did not seeing the course on Friday make a big difference for the athletes? Will track districts come out at the MTCCCA or they are going to make us wait as they did with Cross Country and basketball? Basketball just came out this morning.
Now that Cross country season is behind us and the focus shifts to track for most of the coaches. How do you grade the season?.
How did Mshsaa do?
If 5 classes are approved does it start immediately in 2019 season or this has to wait a year or 2 to go into effect??
What could you have done differently?
Did not seeing the course on Friday make a big difference for the athletes?
Will track districts come out at the MTCCCA or they are going to make us wait as they did with Cross Country and basketball? Basketball just came out this morning.
11/09/2018 11:31:47 AM
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#1 The earliest would be 20-21. Again, this effects all sports, except maybe football. TF districts will not be released until the second Friday of the season, just like CC. This school year it will be March 8. You can find this on page 126 in the MSHSAA Handbook under Board Policy 11. Note that there were 89 teams - 63 girls and 26 boys - that registered for CC but did not enter anybody at the district meet. They have been fined $500. Not sure that anybody has payed nor what Plan B is if they don't.
#1 The earliest would be 20-21. Again, this effects all sports, except maybe football.
TF districts will not be released until the second Friday of the season, just like CC. This school year it will be March 8. You can find this on page 126 in the MSHSAA Handbook under Board Policy 11.
Note that there were 89 teams - 63 girls and 26 boys - that registered for CC but did not enter anybody at the district meet. They have been fined $500. Not sure that anybody has payed nor what Plan B is if they don't.
11/09/2018 2:31:26 PM
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Due to that, We were bumped from 1 to 2. We had 102 kids 9-11. They need to be fined. It bumped a lot of schools, not just us.
Due to that, We were bumped from 1 to 2. We had 102 kids 9-11. They need to be fined. It bumped a lot of schools, not just us.
11/09/2018 3:21:27 PM
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It would have switched it to boys determining cutoffs and probably moved West Plains, Carl Junction, Hannibal, Warrensburg and Warrenton down to Class 3, East Newton and Lawson to Class 2 and Van-Far, Valle, Stover, Calvar Lutheran, Blomfield, Plato, New Haven and St. Vincent to Class 1.
It would have switched it to boys determining cutoffs and probably moved West Plains, Carl Junction, Hannibal, Warrensburg and Warrenton down to Class 3, East Newton and Lawson to Class 2 and Van-Far, Valle, Stover, Calvar Lutheran, Blomfield, Plato, New Haven and St. Vincent to Class 1.
11/09/2018 10:05:49 PM
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I thought something seemed fishy when so many changes came this year. Is that an abnormal number of district no shows? It really does show that class 1 needs to be much larger from the start.
I thought something seemed fishy when so many changes came this year. Is that an abnormal number of district no shows? It really does show that class 1 needs to be much larger from the start.
11/09/2018 10:29:34 PM
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@palmtree Not abnormal in that it was almost identical to the year before - one school difference. While Class 1 gets as always the blame the real culprit is Class 3. Under the same status quo next year then, I hope common sense will prevail beyond.
@palmtree
Not abnormal in that it was almost identical to the year before - one school difference. While Class 1 gets as always the blame the real culprit is Class 3.
Under the same status quo next year then, I hope common sense will prevail beyond.
11/09/2018 11:18:18 PM
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I am surprised. I just assumed it was class 1 because when you look at the class 1 district results there are so few complete teams.
I am surprised. I just assumed it was class 1 because when you look at the class 1 district results there are so few complete teams.
11/10/2018 8:24:20 AM
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@palmtree That is on the girls side. If schools had done the right thing then CC would be classified by the boys. Girls always have about 2/3 to 3/4 the number of runners than boys do. Volleyball and softball hurt more than football. Note there was a Class 1 bots district that had more runners than a Class 4 boys district.
@palmtree
That is on the girls side. If schools had done the right thing then CC would be classified by the boys.
Girls always have about 2/3 to 3/4 the number of runners than boys do. Volleyball and softball hurt more than football. Note there was a Class 1 bots district that had more runners than a Class 4 boys district.
11/10/2018 6:43:46 PM
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If this is the case then it will happen again next year. The bubble schools like the schools Hays mentioned will get screwed again and we are one of them.
If this is the case then it will happen again next year. The bubble schools like the schools Hays mentioned will get screwed again and we are one of them.
11/10/2018 9:03:33 PM
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@szoughaib Ditto, East Newton would have done pretty well in Class 2.
@szoughaib
Ditto, East Newton would have done pretty well in Class 2.
11/10/2018 9:06:16 PM
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@szoughaib As Far as I could tell, the decision maker wants to push class and district releases later to alleviate that problem. As it is now a yearly cycle, there is less chance of getting the short straw for you and schools like you. (Did you see that meant SV, too? They'll be gunning for you!)
@szoughaib As Far as I could tell, the decision maker wants to push class and district releases later to alleviate that problem. As it is now a yearly cycle, there is less chance of getting the short straw for you and schools like you. (Did you see that meant SV, too? They'll be gunning for you!)
11/11/2018 6:22:31 AM
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Dean, did I also hear correctly that when we go to 5 Classes (noting it will be a few years) that the proposal discussed the other day would be an absolute even split across the board? Say like 75 schools per class? I was just curious because what was discussed here and what is used in many other sports (Track included) is a set number that is less in the highest class, then an even split. If this is true, any idea why it would be different than what Track uses? Thanks in advance!
Dean, did I also hear correctly that when we go to 5 Classes (noting it will be a few years) that the proposal discussed the other day would be an absolute even split across the board? Say like 75 schools per class?

I was just curious because what was discussed here and what is used in many other sports (Track included) is a set number that is less in the highest class, then an even split.

If this is true, any idea why it would be different than what Track uses?

Thanks in advance!
11/11/2018 8:20:44 AM
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In rough terms, the proposal that may be on the spring ballot is that no school will be less than half the size of the largest school in the class. If the largest school has an enrollment of 2000, the bottom of the class would be no lower than 1000. There will not be a set number of schools per class. All sports (maybe not football) will follow this procedure.
In rough terms, the proposal that may be on the spring ballot is that no school will be less than half the size of the largest school in the class. If the largest school has an enrollment of 2000, the bottom of the class would be no lower than 1000. There will not be a set number of schools per class. All sports (maybe not football) will follow this procedure.
11/12/2018 8:27:43 AM
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Great proposal but how many classes is it going to take to make this happen. I do not know if that is possible even with 5 classes or is it. Is it possible that they will expand the classes since 89 schools didn't run anyone at district?. What If those teams are not added to next years' figure out the classifications and If they happen to run anyone it will be an individual or 2.
Great proposal but how many classes is it going to take to make this happen. I do not know if that is possible even with 5 classes or is it. Is it possible that they will expand the classes since 89 schools didn't run anyone at district?. What If those teams are not added to next years' figure out the classifications and If they happen to run anyone it will be an individual or 2.
11/12/2018 9:55:44 AM
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Even if a school has an individual or 2 -- that is not a team. It seems that individuals should not have an impact on classification since an individual of any ability could be in any class. Maybe MSHSAA needs to ask schools to specify whether or not they will have a full team to compete when making alignments. It's my understanding that the proposed rule stating the smallest school can not be less than half the size of the largest school in a given class does not include class 1. It would be nearly impossible due to some very small schools in class 1.
Even if a school has an individual or 2 -- that is not a team. It seems that individuals should not have an impact on classification since an individual of any ability could be in any class. Maybe MSHSAA needs to ask schools to specify whether or not they will have a full team to compete when making alignments.

It's my understanding that the proposed rule stating the smallest school can not be less than half the size of the largest school in a given class does not include class 1. It would be nearly impossible due to some very small schools in class 1.
11/12/2018 2:11:48 PM
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[quote=palmtree]Even if a school has an individual or 2 -- that is not a team. It seems that individuals should not have an impact on classification since an individual of any ability could be in any class. Maybe MSHSAA needs to ask schools to specify whether or not they will have a full team to compete when making alignments. It's my understanding that the proposed rule stating the smallest school can not be less than half the size of the largest school in a given class does not include class 1. It would be nearly impossible due to some very small schools in class 1.[/quote] +1. I have always said that the classifications breaks should be based on the total number of complete teams from all the district meets in the state the year before. So if only 280 schools posted complete teams at district meets in 2018, then in 2019 the breaks should be at the 70th largest school for class 4, 140th largest school for class 3, and the 210th largest school for class 2. The new proposal does not include class 1. If the largest school with cross-country has, say, 2200 students (remember we only count 10-12th grades now for some reason), then class 4 would be 2200-1101, class 3 would be 1100-551, class 2 would be 500-251, and class 1 would be every school under 251. Kind of a bummer for the class 1 school with 28 kids, but not as unfair to as many athletes and programs as what we have now. Sean Nunn Raytown South
palmtree wrote:
Even if a school has an individual or 2 -- that is not a team. It seems that individuals should not have an impact on classification since an individual of any ability could be in any class. Maybe MSHSAA needs to ask schools to specify whether or not they will have a full team to compete when making alignments.

It's my understanding that the proposed rule stating the smallest school can not be less than half the size of the largest school in a given class does not include class 1. It would be nearly impossible due to some very small schools in class 1.


+1. I have always said that the classifications breaks should be based on the total number of complete teams from all the district meets in the state the year before. So if only 280 schools posted complete teams at district meets in 2018, then in 2019 the breaks should be at the 70th largest school for class 4, 140th largest school for class 3, and the 210th largest school for class 2.

The new proposal does not include class 1.
If the largest school with cross-country has, say, 2200 students (remember we only count 10-12th grades now for some reason), then class 4 would be 2200-1101, class 3 would be 1100-551, class 2 would be 500-251, and class 1 would be every school under 251. Kind of a bummer for the class 1 school with 28 kids, but not as unfair to as many athletes and programs as what we have now.

Sean Nunn
Raytown South
11/12/2018 2:18:08 PM
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@seannunn It would. Class 1 cutoff would be 125 and below which is about the same as it is this year. CC moving to 5 classes, will keep the old Class almost identical to the new with almost 95 schools.
@seannunn
It would. Class 1 cutoff would be 125 and below which is about the same as it is this year. CC moving to 5 classes, will keep the old Class almost identical to the new with almost 95 schools.
11/12/2018 5:05:27 PM
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If 250 becomes the catch all of class 1 then some of the class big class 2 also will be class 1 interesting.
If 250 becomes the catch all of class 1 then some of the class big class 2 also will be class 1 interesting.
11/12/2018 11:35:41 PM
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Again I suggest we get on the same page. With what we want this extra class system to look like. I do like coaches idea about using the schools that competed with full teams from the previous year on how we set our five classes and then use class one as a catch-all.
Again I suggest we get on the same page. With what we want this extra class system to look like. I do like coaches idea about using the schools that competed with full teams from the previous year on how we set our five classes and then use class one as a catch-all.
11/13/2018 10:19:40 AM
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[quote=szoughaib]If 250 becomes the catch all of class 1 then some of the class big class 2 also will be class 1 interesting.[/quote] I was wrong about that; Hays corrected me (its OK, he is old enough to be my teacher). If this proposal passes then we will go to 5 classes, right Dean? Or are those independent proposals? With 5 classes, using my hypothetical largest school of 2000 students grades 10-12, class 2 would be 250-126 and class 1 would be 125 and down. These are hypothetical numbers since we don't know the final enrollment for the largest school. The only issue I could see with this idea would be if we had a growing high school that just refused to split and ended up with 4000+ students; it would throw the whole alignment off. (Jenks OK had 4400 at one time; Dallas Skyline had 5500.) Hopefully that won't happen in Missouri. Sean Nunn Raytown South
szoughaib wrote:
If 250 becomes the catch all of class 1 then some of the class big class 2 also will be class 1 interesting.


I was wrong about that; Hays corrected me (its OK, he is old enough to be my teacher). If this proposal passes then we will go to 5 classes, right Dean? Or are those independent proposals?

With 5 classes, using my hypothetical largest school of 2000 students grades 10-12, class 2 would be 250-126 and class 1 would be 125 and down. These are hypothetical numbers since we don't know the final enrollment for the largest school.

The only issue I could see with this idea would be if we had a growing high school that just refused to split and ended up with 4000+ students; it would throw the whole alignment off. (Jenks OK had 4400 at one time; Dallas Skyline had 5500.) Hopefully that won't happen in Missouri.

Sean Nunn
Raytown South

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