questions for kytrack
11/01/2015 4:14:34 PM
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What is the boys freshman record in kentucky? Did Gabby karas run hurt on Saturday?
What is the boys freshman record in kentucky?

Did Gabby karas run hurt on Saturday?
11/01/2015 8:27:24 PM
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I'm not sure what the freshman record is, but I would think Zach Larkin was pretty close with his 15:58 Saturday for St. X.
I'm not sure what the freshman record is, but I would think Zach Larkin was pretty close with his 15:58 Saturday for St. X.
11/02/2015 9:19:44 PM
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@ADIHC95 I don't know what the record is either but Eaton ran 15:39 his Freshman year so, 15:58 is not definitely not it. I also see Curtis went 15:58, Buechler 15:56 and Fryman 15:54. Those were the fastest ones I could find right off.
@ADIHC95

I don't know what the record is either but Eaton ran 15:39 his Freshman year so, 15:58 is not definitely not it. I also see Curtis went 15:58, Buechler 15:56 and Fryman 15:54. Those were the fastest ones I could find right off.
11/02/2015 11:13:42 PM
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Thank You coach! I know Michael and did not know this. I think we forget about how good he was. Maybe the best ever but most people would say JT are Bobby.
Thank You coach! I know Michael and did not know this. I think we forget about how good he was. Maybe the best ever but most people would say JT are Bobby.
11/03/2015 7:58:21 AM
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@mbrooks35 You think Michael is better than Bobby?
@mbrooks35
You think Michael is better than Bobby?
11/03/2015 8:34:13 AM
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@medleyc I think on the track Bobby and JT was better but on the course Micheal gets my vote. From his freshman year to his senior year his running times were better. Coach your boy Thomas Cave told me think Bobby is the greatest runner in state history. I don't Know about that. I'm sure the Holy Cross fans would agree. On the track JT is the best distance runner to come out of this state(coming from a Desales guy) he done his work in Class A. Bobby had much better competition in Class AAA. Bobby is a much better Pro than Micheal!
@medleyc I think on the track Bobby and JT was better but on the course Micheal gets my vote. From his freshman year to his senior year his running times were better. Coach your boy Thomas Cave told me think Bobby is the greatest runner in state history. I don't Know about that. I'm sure the Holy Cross fans would agree. On the track JT is the best distance runner to come out of this state(coming from a Desales guy) he done his work in Class A. Bobby had much better competition in Class AAA. Bobby is a much better Pro than Micheal!
11/03/2015 9:06:46 AM
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@CoachMark I don't want to start a discussion on XC course length or difficulty; I fully understand it's difficult to compare XC (times) year to year, or decade to decade, but for historic reference I think it's safe to say Larkin's time was close to the all-time best if we accept the fact that Eaton's 15:39 is debatable. I also fully understand the course at Seneca is debatable as well, just as debatable as the camp ground State Championship course where Bobby ran 15:56. If I'm not mistaken Buechler's 15:56 you are referring to on milesplit is from his Sophomore year. Fryman's 15:54 at Trinity in (my opinion) is legit. Tom Sawyer is a (fast) course, but considering we hold collegiate championship meets there, there should be more confidence in the distance. I wasn't suggesting that Larkin was the fastest, but I think for historic reference he should appreciate the significance of what he accomplished on Saturday. If there were a ranking of freshman times, his would be among the best all-time. A few additional notes for reference on this topic: In addition to Eaton running 15:39, 15:55 was his second fastest time of the year, and he went on to run 16:18 at State on the same course Bobby ran 15:56 as a freshman. If you review the top 4 finishers in the race Eaton ran 15:39, as stated Eaton's next best time that season was 15:55; the second place finisher ran 15:48 (his next best time that season was 16:55); third place was 15:50 (next best time 16:39), fourth place 16:04 (next best time 16:56). All solely based on what is reported on milesplit. It's also likely Curtis or Buechler may have run faster times as freshman than what is record on milesplit. I'm merely pointing out that Larkin's 15:58 is (closer) to the all-time best than it appears based on the 15:39 recorded on milesplit.
@CoachMark

I don't want to start a discussion on XC course length or difficulty; I fully understand it's difficult to compare XC (times) year to year, or decade to decade, but for historic reference I think it's safe to say Larkin's time was close to the all-time best if we accept the fact that Eaton's 15:39 is debatable.

I also fully understand the course at Seneca is debatable as well, just as debatable as the camp ground State Championship course where Bobby ran 15:56.

If I'm not mistaken Buechler's 15:56 you are referring to on milesplit is from his Sophomore year.

Fryman's 15:54 at Trinity in (my opinion) is legit. Tom Sawyer is a (fast) course, but considering we hold collegiate championship meets there, there should be more confidence in the distance.

I wasn't suggesting that Larkin was the fastest, but I think for historic reference he should appreciate the significance of what he accomplished on Saturday. If there were a ranking of freshman times, his would be among the best all-time.

A few additional notes for reference on this topic:

In addition to Eaton running 15:39, 15:55 was his second fastest time of the year, and he went on to run 16:18 at State on the same course Bobby ran 15:56 as a freshman.

If you review the top 4 finishers in the race Eaton ran 15:39, as stated Eaton's next best time that season was 15:55; the second place finisher ran 15:48 (his next best time that season was 16:55); third place was 15:50 (next best time 16:39), fourth place 16:04 (next best time 16:56). All solely based on what is reported on milesplit.

It's also likely Curtis or Buechler may have run faster times as freshman than what is record on milesplit.

I'm merely pointing out that Larkin's 15:58 is (closer) to the all-time best than it appears based on the 15:39 recorded on milesplit.
11/03/2015 9:47:30 AM
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@mbrooks35 Bobby was 3 time cross country state champion and one time runner up. He never lost to a Kentuckian after his state meet freshman year. He holds the course record at the old state meet course, set at the Lexington Catholic Invitational, and the only person to ever go sub 15 there. He was a three time Footlocker Finalist, finishing 3rd his senior year. As much as I like Michael and consider him a friend. He did not do as much in high school as Bobby did.
@mbrooks35
Bobby was 3 time cross country state champion and one time runner up.
He never lost to a Kentuckian after his state meet freshman year.
He holds the course record at the old state meet course, set at the Lexington Catholic Invitational, and the only person to ever go sub 15 there.
He was a three time Footlocker Finalist, finishing 3rd his senior year.
As much as I like Michael and consider him a friend.
He did not do as much in high school as Bobby did.
11/03/2015 9:54:16 AM
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@mbrooks35 I think you're putting a lot of stock into what you see on milesplit, and not all of the stats in regards to Curtis, Eaton and Thomson. You're entitled to your opinion, and others may agree, but in my opinion Eaton is not close to Curtis in XC. With that said, Eaton IS one of the All-time most successful runners in Kentucky history - there's no question that he was great! But in comparison to Curtis, I wouldn't even say it's close. This fact alone, Curtis is a 3 time Footlocker Finalist; Eaton couldn't win 3 Kentucky State XC titles. But that leads to the question, what defines the best? Is it who ultimately ran the single best race, or who was the best throughout high school. I give Eaton a ton of credit; Jacob and I even had the conversion on where he stood against Eaton in regards to Kentucky history based on Eaton's Footlocker South title. So here's my argument: Curtis; 3 X Footlocker Finalist Footlocker South Champion (3 times top 5; 1st, 3rd, 5th) As a sophomore Curtis finished 10th at the Footlocker Nationals. 10th! And what most impressive about that is the Top 3 in that race were Ritzenhein, Alan Webb, and Ryan Hall. As a senior Curtis finished 3rd at Footlocker Nationals. 3rd! Most impressive about that is the winner was Chris Solinsky (the previous US 10K American Record holder). Eaton; 2 X Footlocker Finalist Footlocker South Champion Eaton was 13th and 33rd in his Footlocker National finishes. And I would argue against lesser competition than Curtis faced. (I'm sorry, but I don't think it's even a close call between the two. That isn't saying Eaton isn't one of the best; just not better than Curtis) Thomson; 2 X Footlocker Finalist Thomson finished 5th and 19th in his Footlocker National finishes. And if you are at all familiar with the current best D1 NCAA athletes in the US, among them are Edward Cheserek, Sean McGorty, and Ben Saarel who finished 1st, 2nd and 4th respectively. (I think if there is any debate about the All-time Kentucky XC ranking, the debate is over who is 2nd best - I'll take Thomson!)
@mbrooks35

I think you're putting a lot of stock into what you see on milesplit, and not all of the stats in regards to Curtis, Eaton and Thomson.

You're entitled to your opinion, and others may agree, but in my opinion Eaton is not close to Curtis in XC. With that said, Eaton IS one of the All-time most successful runners in Kentucky history - there's no question that he was great! But in comparison to Curtis, I wouldn't even say it's close.

This fact alone, Curtis is a 3 time Footlocker Finalist; Eaton couldn't win 3 Kentucky State XC titles. But that leads to the question, what defines the best? Is it who ultimately ran the single best race, or who was the best throughout high school.

I give Eaton a ton of credit; Jacob and I even had the conversion on where he stood against Eaton in regards to Kentucky history based on Eaton's Footlocker South title.

So here's my argument:

Curtis;

3 X Footlocker Finalist
Footlocker South Champion (3 times top 5; 1st, 3rd, 5th)

As a sophomore Curtis finished 10th at the Footlocker Nationals. 10th! And what most impressive about that is the Top 3 in that race were Ritzenhein, Alan Webb, and Ryan Hall.

As a senior Curtis finished 3rd at Footlocker Nationals. 3rd! Most impressive about that is the winner was Chris Solinsky (the previous US 10K American Record holder).

Eaton;

2 X Footlocker Finalist
Footlocker South Champion

Eaton was 13th and 33rd in his Footlocker National finishes. And I would argue against lesser competition than Curtis faced.

(I'm sorry, but I don't think it's even a close call between the two. That isn't saying Eaton isn't one of the best; just not better than Curtis)

Thomson;

2 X Footlocker Finalist

Thomson finished 5th and 19th in his Footlocker National finishes. And if you are at all familiar with the current best D1 NCAA athletes in the US, among them are Edward Cheserek, Sean McGorty, and Ben Saarel who finished 1st, 2nd and 4th respectively.

(I think if there is any debate about the All-time Kentucky XC ranking, the debate is over who is 2nd best - I'll take Thomson!)
11/03/2015 9:54:44 AM
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@ADIHC95 It would have been a lot of fun if Keaton and Zach could have run the same race.
@ADIHC95
It would have been a lot of fun if Keaton and Zach could have run the same race.
11/03/2015 10:05:50 AM
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@medleyc Keeton's time to shine is coming... Maybe we'll see a few old fashioned Johnnie Baum and John Perkin's battles the next few years. It was definitely nice to be back on the course at Seneca. It disappoints me that Jacob didn't get to race there.
@medleyc

Keeton's time to shine is coming...

Maybe we'll see a few old fashioned Johnnie Baum and John Perkin's battles the next few years. It was definitely nice to be back on the course at Seneca. It disappoints me that Jacob didn't get to race there.
11/03/2015 10:18:52 AM
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[quote=medleyc]@mbrooks35 Bobby was 3 time cross country state champion and one time runner up. He never lost to a Kentuckian after his state meet freshman year. He holds the course record at the old state meet course, set at the Lexington Catholic Invitational, and the only person to ever go sub 15 there. He was a three time Footlocker Finalist, finishing 3rd his senior year. As much as I like Michael and consider him a friend. He did not do as much in high school as Bobby did.[/quote] @medleyc Oh, and be careful about defending Bobby in this forum. If I recall, it was once stated that Coach Medley isn't on here telling everyone how good Bobby was when I made an argument for Jacob. (Haha, I for one am glad to see you on here contributing to the topic) I remember the good old days when professor, butlercoachxc and I could provide some good entertainment on the message boards. I have a good feeling butlercoachxc will be back in a couple years. (Congrats to Dalton on the MS title!)
medleyc wrote:
@mbrooks35
Bobby was 3 time cross country state champion and one time runner up.
He never lost to a Kentuckian after his state meet freshman year.
He holds the course record at the old state meet course, set at the Lexington Catholic Invitational, and the only person to ever go sub 15 there.
He was a three time Footlocker Finalist, finishing 3rd his senior year.
As much as I like Michael and consider him a friend.
He did not do as much in high school as Bobby did.


@medleyc

Oh, and be careful about defending Bobby in this forum. If I recall, it was once stated that Coach Medley isn't on here telling everyone how good Bobby was when I made an argument for Jacob. (Haha, I for one am glad to see you on here contributing to the topic)

I remember the good old days when professor, butlercoachxc and I could provide some good entertainment on the message boards.

I have a good feeling butlercoachxc will be back in a couple years. (Congrats to Dalton on the MS title!)
11/03/2015 10:41:16 AM
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@ADIHC95 Brian I don't know about all the people on this post, but you and I have seen them all Thomson, Curtis, Eaton, Baum and Perkins.
@ADIHC95
Brian
I don't know about all the people on this post, but you and I have seen them all
Thomson, Curtis, Eaton, Baum and Perkins.
11/03/2015 10:42:34 AM
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@ADIHC95 We'll get those guys back. You hear from Brandon occasionally.
@ADIHC95
We'll get those guys back.
You hear from Brandon occasionally.
11/03/2015 8:26:37 PM
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@medleyc ok! Bobby has a better national resume but state not the case. Micheal 2005 15:05 2004 15:44 2003 15:52 2002 16:18.71 also he's own the freshman record 14:35 and All-time state record 14:35. Bobby just has one more state title than him. Yes he done more on a national stage. This like saying Casey combest is the greatest kentucky high school sprinter because of his national work but Tyson Gay the best state sprinter. My all time top 5 Cross country runners. 1-Eaton 2.Bobby 3.Jacob 4.David Christian- Davis star in the 90s 5.Thomas Murley -e-town star Stanford all American.
@medleyc ok! Bobby has a better national resume but state not the case. Micheal 2005 15:05
2004 15:44
2003 15:52
2002 16:18.71 also he's own the freshman record 14:35 and All-time state record 14:35. Bobby just has one more state title than him. Yes he done more on a national stage. This like saying Casey combest is the greatest kentucky high school sprinter because of his national work but Tyson Gay the best state sprinter. My all time top 5 Cross country runners.

1-Eaton
2.Bobby
3.Jacob
4.David Christian- Davis star in the 90s

5.Thomas Murley -e-town star Stanford all American.
11/04/2015 7:32:53 AM
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@mbrooks35 One more state championship doesn't count? The courses where Michael ran those fast times has always been suspect. The one course that Bobby and Michael had in common was the old campground course at the horse park. Bobby's the only runner to go sub 15. The National scene doesn't count? All the Footlocker races were done in high school. Bobby qualified 3 times and came in 3rd his senior year. Michael doesn't have that resume. Unfortunately, they didn't compete against each other in their primes. If you ever saw Bobby race, he had a devastating kick. If they were racing against each other Bobby would have out kicked him just like he out kicked Nef at Foot Locker. Michael knows this. Ask him who he thinks was better.
@mbrooks35
One more state championship doesn't count?
The courses where Michael ran those fast times has always been suspect.
The one course that Bobby and Michael had in common was the old campground course at the horse park. Bobby's the only runner to go sub 15.

The National scene doesn't count? All the Footlocker races were done in high school. Bobby qualified 3 times and came in 3rd his senior year. Michael doesn't have that resume.

Unfortunately, they didn't compete against each other in their primes.
If you ever saw Bobby race, he had a devastating kick. If they were racing against each other Bobby would have out kicked him just like he out kicked Nef at Foot Locker.
Michael knows this. Ask him who he thinks was better.
11/04/2015 8:49:33 AM
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@medleyc If you look back on here, it looks like Michael went under 15 twice his senior year, with one of them being 14:35. Not sure Bobby would have been with him to use that kick. I'm also not sure if Michael's courses were any more suspect than most that are ran in Louisville right now, such as Seneca. Both are great runners for sure though.
@medleyc

If you look back on here, it looks like Michael went under 15 twice his senior year, with one of them being 14:35. Not sure Bobby would have been with him to use that kick. I'm also not sure if Michael's courses were any more suspect than most that are ran in Louisville right now, such as Seneca. Both are great runners for sure though.
11/04/2015 9:34:59 AM
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@GrizzlyAdams I don't know who you are, so I don't know if you ever saw Bobby race. He did run a 14:44 5K. I'll guarantee you that Bobby would have been been with Michael and out kicked him. At Footlocker Nationals where Bobby ran a 15:06 on a very hilly course, the great Nef Araia was 50 meters ahead of Bobby with 200 meters left and Bobby out kicked him to the finish line. There has never been anyone in the state as dominating as Bobby was when he was in high school. He never lost to a Kentuckian in any race, cross country or track and field after he was narrowly beaten by senior David Altmeier in 1500 in the mason dixon games.
@GrizzlyAdams
I don't know who you are, so I don't know if you ever saw Bobby race.
He did run a 14:44 5K.
I'll guarantee you that Bobby would have been been with Michael and out kicked him.
At Footlocker Nationals where Bobby ran a 15:06 on a very hilly course, the great Nef Araia was 50 meters ahead of Bobby with 200 meters left and Bobby out kicked him to the finish line.
There has never been anyone in the state as dominating as Bobby was when he was in high school.
He never lost to a Kentuckian in any race, cross country or track and field after he was narrowly beaten by senior David Altmeier in 1500 in the mason dixon games.
11/04/2015 10:23:22 AM
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@medleyc Thats not a guarantee that you can make. I remember Bobby having a huge kick at Footlocker South when he won it, at the end of that kick, he still ran slower than Eaton did on that same course in sloppy conditions. Like I have mentioned before, they a both great runners. This is just my opinion after seeing both of them. To be honest, I think there are about 5 runners you can put in the conversation and yes, several ran low 15s and had "devastating" kicks as well. We are lucky to have seen so many great runners come through KY.
@medleyc

Thats not a guarantee that you can make. I remember Bobby having a huge kick at Footlocker South when he won it, at the end of that kick, he still ran slower than Eaton did on that same course in sloppy conditions. Like I have mentioned before, they a both great runners. This is just my opinion after seeing both of them. To be honest, I think there are about 5 runners you can put in the conversation and yes, several ran low 15s and had "devastating" kicks as well. We are lucky to have seen so many great runners come through KY.
11/04/2015 1:16:19 PM
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I just got a post from run4thehills who wants to know who I am. I am Chuck Medley the distance coach from St. X. Bobby could have run faster times any time he wanted. Bobby just ran to win and ran great times doing it. Michael had targets that Bobby set to aim for. Bobby had targets set before him by Johnny Baum, David Christian and others that he beat. If the targets had been faster then he would have run faster. At one time Bobby held the state record in 1500, 1600, mile, 3200, 2 mile and 5K all at the same time, who else can say that? Maybe David Christian. The main thing is, is that Bobby DID NOT LOSE TO A KENTUCKIAN IN THREE AND A HALF YEARS. NOBODY ELSE CAN SAY THAT. Can you fathom that, not losing to Kentuckian in any race for that long and there were great runners at that time, Issac LeFond, Ryan Snellen, Jacob Buckman and Alex Bray. They never beat him. After races my boys come up and ask me their times, and ask them who they beat who that haven't beaten before. They don't count times at cross country meets. Finish places are much important than times. Being undefeated is much more important than any times.
I just got a post from run4thehills who wants to know who I am.
I am Chuck Medley the distance coach from St. X.
Bobby could have run faster times any time he wanted. Bobby just ran to win and ran great times doing it. Michael had targets that Bobby set to aim for.
Bobby had targets set before him by Johnny Baum, David Christian and others that he beat. If the targets had been faster then he would have run faster.
At one time Bobby held the state record in 1500, 1600, mile, 3200, 2 mile and 5K all at the same time, who else can say that? Maybe David Christian.
The main thing is, is that Bobby DID NOT LOSE TO A KENTUCKIAN IN THREE AND A HALF YEARS. NOBODY ELSE CAN SAY THAT. Can you fathom that, not losing to Kentuckian in any race for that long and there were great runners at that time, Issac LeFond, Ryan Snellen, Jacob Buckman and Alex Bray. They never beat him.

After races my boys come up and ask me their times, and ask them who they beat who that haven't beaten before.
They don't count times at cross country meets.
Finish places are much important than times.
Being undefeated is much more important than any times.

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