McGorty and Chase Choose Footlocker over Team
11/25/2012 8:56:18 AM
User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 227
Ok, this doesn't happen very often, so it's definitely worth discussing in my book. McGorty won the boys' race at FL South and Sophie Chase of Lake Braddock, VA won the girls race. Both individuals also had teams compete without them at NXN Southeast. Without them, McGorty's Chantilly team lost a tiebreaker for 2nd and Chase's squad ended up a distant 4th. With those single digit scores, both teams probably not only qualify, but WIN the regional titles. Groom's asked me this question: How do you talk to your teammates after that?
Ok, this doesn't happen very often, so it's definitely worth discussing in my book. McGorty won the boys' race at FL South and Sophie Chase of Lake Braddock, VA won the girls race. Both individuals also had teams compete without them at NXN Southeast. Without them, McGorty's Chantilly team lost a tiebreaker for 2nd and Chase's squad ended up a distant 4th. With those single digit scores, both teams probably not only qualify, but WIN the regional titles.

Groom's asked me this question: How do you talk to your teammates after that?
11/25/2012 9:08:28 AM
User
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 46
I feel like there was a heavy amount of discussion about the whole ordeal before the race. I think the only way you could handle it was to talk through it prior and lay it to rest so people don't let it affect their race.
I feel like there was a heavy amount of discussion about the whole ordeal before the race. I think the only way you could handle it was to talk through it prior and lay it to rest so people don't let it affect their race.
11/25/2012 9:20:05 AM
Coach
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 40
I just hate that a decision even has to be made. I wish Foot Locker and Nike could come together and have 1 championship race, and take teams and individuals like we do from Region to State.
I just hate that a decision even has to be made. I wish Foot Locker and Nike could come together and have 1 championship race, and take teams and individuals like we do from Region to State.
11/25/2012 9:22:23 AM
Coach
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1289
@steeplecoach In my opinion, it's not simply a question of whether they discussed it but when. If it was a decision made at the end of the season, I could see that being a problem. On a positive note, I believe both teams did have one individual advance at Nike.
@steeplecoach
In my opinion, it's not simply a question of whether they discussed it but when. If it was a decision made at the end of the season, I could see that being a problem. On a positive note, I believe both teams did have one individual advance at Nike.
11/25/2012 10:22:33 AM
User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 35
[quote=GoSox]I just hate that a decision even has to be made. I wish Foot Locker and Nike could come together and have 1 championship race, and take teams and individuals like we do from Region to State.[/quote] @GoSox Exactly !!!! Nike, at least too me, seems intent on taking over from FootLocker not acquiescing. With Nike throwing money at it, I would bet on them. But running in Oregon, in the winter, and the constant rain, does not seem like a good post season sell. At FootLocker, we remember who wins the race. At NXN who really cares who wins the race. Just the team score.
GoSox wrote:
I just hate that a decision even has to be made. I wish Foot Locker and Nike could come together and have 1 championship race, and take teams and individuals like we do from Region to State.


@GoSox

Exactly !!!!

Nike, at least too me, seems intent on taking over from FootLocker not acquiescing. With Nike throwing money at it, I would bet on them. But running in Oregon, in the winter, and the constant rain, does not seem like a good post season sell.

At FootLocker, we remember who wins the race. At NXN who really cares who wins the race. Just the team score.
11/25/2012 10:48:28 AM
Coach
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1289
@lowmiler [I]Re: "At FootLocker, we remember who wins the race. At NXN who really cares who wins the race. Just the team score."[/i] Maybe we travel in different circles but I hear plenty of people talk about the NXN race winners, although most of that talk began after they started taking individuals at Nike. I agree though that it'd be great to see a merge. It's unlikely to ever happen, but it'd be great to see.
@lowmiler

Re: "At FootLocker, we remember who wins the race. At NXN who really cares who wins the race. Just the team score."

Maybe we travel in different circles but I hear plenty of people talk about the NXN race winners, although most of that talk began after they started taking individuals at Nike. I agree though that it'd be great to see a merge. It's unlikely to ever happen, but it'd be great to see.
11/25/2012 5:33:17 PM
Coach
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 134
Also, we are one of the regions that has Nike and foot locker on the same weekend Kids from other regionals are able to do both What if these two runners had the choice to do both like Lukas Verzbicas and Edward Cheserak(to name two notables that won both NXN and FLN)?
Also, we are one of the regions that has Nike and foot locker on the same weekend
Kids from other regionals are able to do both
What if these two runners had the choice to do both like Lukas Verzbicas and Edward Cheserak(to name two notables that won both NXN and FLN)?
11/26/2012 10:15:14 AM
Coach
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 40
There's certainly no love between FootLocker and Nike and probably for good reason. If you remember, when NXN was formed in 2004, Nike was actually sponsoring both meets. I have been to both National meets and both Regional meets and feel like they can, and have, co-existed over the last eight years as best as they possibly can. It was funny on Saturday that when some Nike brass heard that the PA announcer was referencing what was going on at Foot Locker South (i.e. McGorty and Chase winning) the meet directors got a phone call and the PA announcer was reprimanded.
There's certainly no love between FootLocker and Nike and probably for good reason. If you remember, when NXN was formed in 2004, Nike was actually sponsoring both meets. I have been to both National meets and both Regional meets and feel like they can, and have, co-existed over the last eight years as best as they possibly can. It was funny on Saturday that when some Nike brass heard that the PA announcer was referencing what was going on at Foot Locker South (i.e. McGorty and Chase winning) the meet directors got a phone call and the PA announcer was reprimanded.
11/26/2012 10:49:22 AM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 388
Chantilly (Boys) and Lake Braddock (girls) both were ranked in the top 15 in CC polls. But Nike in their short sighed ways refuse to give them a at large berth to the National Finals, because their top runners ran at Footlocker South instead of Nike Southest. Both runners could have win their respective events in Oregon. The word Grudge comes to mind.
Chantilly (Boys) and Lake Braddock (girls) both were ranked in the top 15 in CC polls. But Nike in their short sighed ways refuse to give them a at large berth to the National Finals, because their top runners ran at Footlocker South instead of Nike Southest. Both runners could have win their respective events in Oregon. The word Grudge comes to mind.
11/26/2012 12:17:42 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 41
How can Nike claim to have a meet with the best teams in the country when there are 2 obvious omissions due to runners having to make a choice? It's clear to everyone that both of those teams were hampered by not having their number one runner and these are the 2 easy examples. What other teams were missing top individuals that would have helped them at the team meet? Likewise, Footlocker can't really say it has the greatest talent in the nation when there were several kids who ran for their team instead of individually. This conflict is only an issue in certain regions of the country, other areas are able to do both. This is probably what happens when corporate entities are in charge, rather than simply subsidizing the events.
How can Nike claim to have a meet with the best teams in the country when there are 2 obvious omissions due to runners having to make a choice? It's clear to everyone that both of those teams were hampered by not having their number one runner and these are the 2 easy examples. What other teams were missing top individuals that would have helped them at the team meet? Likewise, Footlocker can't really say it has the greatest talent in the nation when there were several kids who ran for their team instead of individually. This conflict is only an issue in certain regions of the country, other areas are able to do both. This is probably what happens when corporate entities are in charge, rather than simply subsidizing the events.
11/26/2012 1:08:48 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 345
What is interesting is that Nike basically punished these teams because their star athletes did not run at regionals. I think many expected that they would be given at-large bids if they ran well at regionals. Chantilly was incredibly close without McGorty. Is there a case that the other at-large teams are better or is it just sour grapes from Nike?
What is interesting is that Nike basically punished these teams because their star athletes did not run at regionals. I think many expected that they would be given at-large bids if they ran well at regionals. Chantilly was incredibly close without McGorty. Is there a case that the other at-large teams are better or is it just sour grapes from Nike?
11/26/2012 2:24:58 PM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 303
I believe the Chantilly coach and McGorty took their chances with the team qualifying without him - because that was the ONLY opportunity McGorty was given to compete at both Footlocker and NXN. And considering his team tied for a spot at NXN, I think Nike definitely made a statement by not selecting them as an at-large bid. But in my opinion - they only weakened the field for NXN, and I'm glad they did. I'm happy to see McGorty running Footlocker - over the next several years, people will forget about Chantilly missing NXN, but McGorty will add to the prestigious tradition of Footlocker! Nike only allowed Footlocker to perserve their tradition of excellence yet again - and based on Cheserek's choice of Footlocker over NXN, the prestige of Footlocker continues... I obviously can't say for sure if that was the plan for Chantilly, or if McGorty would have ran NXN if his team qualified, but based on the effort he put forth at Footlocker South, I would say he looked like someone who would have laid it on the line at both. McGorty showed he's a confident athlete ready for a challenge and collegiate competition.
I believe the Chantilly coach and McGorty took their chances with the team qualifying without him - because that was the ONLY opportunity McGorty was given to compete at both Footlocker and NXN. And considering his team tied for a spot at NXN, I think Nike definitely made a statement by not selecting them as an at-large bid. But in my opinion - they only weakened the field for NXN, and I'm glad they did. I'm happy to see McGorty running Footlocker - over the next several years, people will forget about Chantilly missing NXN, but McGorty will add to the prestigious tradition of Footlocker!

Nike only allowed Footlocker to perserve their tradition of excellence yet again - and based on Cheserek's choice of Footlocker over NXN, the prestige of Footlocker continues...

I obviously can't say for sure if that was the plan for Chantilly, or if McGorty would have ran NXN if his team qualified, but based on the effort he put forth at Footlocker South, I would say he looked like someone who would have laid it on the line at both.

McGorty showed he's a confident athlete ready for a challenge and collegiate competition.
11/26/2012 2:39:15 PM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 250
It's really ashame they can't merge these to, and come up with a new name for it, sort of when they change to footlocker from Kinney. This will always be a problem in the current system though, because the majority of top teams would realistically have runners who would have a shot at qualifying/doing well at footlocker. it's a tough spot to be in.
It's really ashame they can't merge these to, and come up with a new name for it, sort of when they change to footlocker from Kinney. This will always be a problem in the current system though, because the majority of top teams would realistically have runners who would have a shot at qualifying/doing well at footlocker.

it's a tough spot to be in.
11/26/2012 5:41:46 PM
User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 122
[quote=ADIHC95]...over the next several years, people will forget about Chantilly missing NXN, but McGorty will add to the prestigious tradition of Footlocker!... [/quote] @ADIHC95 I doubt McGorty's Chantilly teammates will forget so easily. As a matter of fact, my guess is that their memory of missing NXN will far outlast everybody's elses memory of McGorty running Footlocker, McGorty himself excepted.
ADIHC95 wrote:
...over the next several years, people will forget about Chantilly missing NXN, but McGorty will add to the prestigious tradition of Footlocker!...



@ADIHC95

I doubt McGorty's Chantilly teammates will forget so easily. As a matter of fact, my guess is that their memory of missing NXN will far outlast everybody's elses memory of McGorty running Footlocker, McGorty himself excepted.
11/26/2012 10:22:48 PM
Coach
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 285
@CCTrackDude I don't think that Chantilly's team will look back at this because McGorty ran Footlocker, rather I think they will look back at NIKE's decsion to stiff them. No offense, but some of the above responses seem to have been based on the what the responder would have felt like if they were in a Chantilly teammate's shoes. I would dare to say that the coach of Chantilly obviously knows what he is doing and probably sat down with his team and told them he has the ultimate confidence in everyone of them and those that ran NIKE could qualify without McGorty and then McGorty could run NXN next week and then come back and run San Diego and the only reason they didn't pull it off was a bias of the selection committee because of the Chantilly coach trying to pull off the double with a "weakened" team. I simply think that was outstanding coaching because he knows his athletes and had confidence in his #5 & #6 to run #4 & #5 against the best in the country. I think rather that the Chantilly team may look twice about buying NIKE's in the future. Why can NIKE do this?? Because NIKE can. Just like last summer when Brooks purchased air space and flew a Brooks banner over the Olympics trial in Eugene and the next day, officials of USATF went to the Brooks suite and escorted the executives from Brooks out of the stadium. Class act!!!!! Wait until Vin Lanana brings the IAAF World Junior Championships to Eugene in 2014, I believe. Do you think adidas, the IAAF sponsor, is going to have security walk in to the the NIKE suite and say, "Excuse me, Phil. You and your entourage have to leave the stadium!"? After all, it's all about the kids, isn't it. I got chewed about by some because someone passed out info about the CCCNYC at the NXN in Terre Haute and Sioux Falls and my email was on the contact info. You would have thought the Convention Bureau would have wanted people to return to Terre Haute two weeks later.
@CCTrackDude
I don't think that Chantilly's team will look back at this because McGorty ran Footlocker, rather I think they will look back at NIKE's decsion to stiff them. No offense, but some of the above responses seem to have been based on the what the responder would have felt like if they were in a Chantilly teammate's shoes. I would dare to say that the coach of Chantilly obviously knows what he is doing and probably sat down with his team and told them he has the ultimate confidence in everyone of them and those that ran NIKE could qualify without McGorty and then McGorty could run NXN next week and then come back and run San Diego and the only reason they didn't pull it off was a bias of the selection committee because of the Chantilly coach trying to pull off the double with a "weakened" team. I simply think that was outstanding coaching because he knows his athletes and had confidence in his #5 & #6 to run #4 & #5 against the best in the country. I think rather that the Chantilly team may look twice about buying NIKE's in the future. Why can NIKE do this?? Because NIKE can. Just like last summer when Brooks purchased air space and flew a Brooks banner over the Olympics trial in Eugene and the next day, officials of USATF went to the Brooks suite and escorted the executives from Brooks out of the stadium. Class act!!!!! Wait until Vin Lanana brings the IAAF World Junior Championships to Eugene in 2014, I believe. Do you think adidas, the IAAF sponsor, is going to have security walk in to the the NIKE suite and say, "Excuse me, Phil. You and your entourage have to leave the stadium!"?

After all, it's all about the kids, isn't it. I got chewed about by some because someone passed out info about the CCCNYC at the NXN in Terre Haute and Sioux Falls and my email was on the contact info. You would have thought the Convention Bureau would have wanted people to return to Terre Haute two weeks later.
11/26/2012 10:34:00 PM
User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 572
Interesting discussion about all this on the Virginia milesplit site. According to the coach, it was a team decision.
Interesting discussion about all this on the Virginia milesplit site. According to the coach, it was a team decision.
11/27/2012 6:49:41 AM
Coach
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1289
I think that both Chantilly and Lake Braddock believed they would do well enough to qualify, and can see how it'd be a team decision on some level. I don't agree with the idea of splitting, as I'd never do it myself, but those kids and their coach have a right to make their own decision in that regard - and I applaud the attempt. Nike has a criteria for selecting at-large teams, and just because a team ties for 2nd at a regional is not necessarily reason for them to advance. Sure, they would have got 2nd with McGorty there, but he wasn't there and they didn't get 2nd. In my opinion, you open up a very big can of worms by making inferences about events that would have happened - rather than base your decision on events that actually did happen. Maybe it seemed clear cut this time, but what if the supposed inclusion of a missing runner isn't so clear next time. You create precedents with certain decisions and I think the selection committee took a stand against using hypotheticals in their selection process, not that they were necessarily punishing anyone. Furthermore, my guess is that the selection committee has at least some overlap with events that aren't Nike-sponsored, so it's not like they're beholden to Nike or anyone else anyhow - as some might suggest. NXN and FL fill different niches, so while adihc's Pavlovian comments about FL might suggest that FL is the equivalent of a British coronation and NXN is just a watered down meet, the truth is that both are outstanding events. NXN is an opportunity for great teams and a few great individuals to participate in a national championship event, and FL is a chance for 40 of the best individual runners in the country to battle for a national championship. If dance and cheerleading can operate as though they never met a national championship they didn't like, then I think Cross Country can live with two meets that ultimately fill different niches.
I think that both Chantilly and Lake Braddock believed they would do well enough to qualify, and can see how it'd be a team decision on some level. I don't agree with the idea of splitting, as I'd never do it myself, but those kids and their coach have a right to make their own decision in that regard - and I applaud the attempt.

Nike has a criteria for selecting at-large teams, and just because a team ties for 2nd at a regional is not necessarily reason for them to advance. Sure, they would have got 2nd with McGorty there, but he wasn't there and they didn't get 2nd. In my opinion, you open up a very big can of worms by making inferences about events that would have happened - rather than base your decision on events that actually did happen. Maybe it seemed clear cut this time, but what if the supposed inclusion of a missing runner isn't so clear next time. You create precedents with certain decisions and I think the selection committee took a stand against using hypotheticals in their selection process, not that they were necessarily punishing anyone. Furthermore, my guess is that the selection committee has at least some overlap with events that aren't Nike-sponsored, so it's not like they're beholden to Nike or anyone else anyhow - as some might suggest.

NXN and FL fill different niches, so while adihc's Pavlovian comments about FL might suggest that FL is the equivalent of a British coronation and NXN is just a watered down meet, the truth is that both are outstanding events. NXN is an opportunity for great teams and a few great individuals to participate in a national championship event, and FL is a chance for 40 of the best individual runners in the country to battle for a national championship. If dance and cheerleading can operate as though they never met a national championship they didn't like, then I think Cross Country can live with two meets that ultimately fill different niches.
11/27/2012 7:35:22 AM
User
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 122
@official I understand what you are saying, but the reason(s) the Chantilly team members will likely remember missing NXN is not my point. ADIHC basically said NXN is irrelevant, and my post was to emphasize that the Chantilly team members are certain to remember this for a long period of time, and therefore, not so irrelevant to them.
@official
I understand what you are saying, but the reason(s) the Chantilly team members will likely remember missing NXN is not my point. ADIHC basically said NXN is irrelevant, and my post was to emphasize that the Chantilly team members are certain to remember this for a long period of time, and therefore, not so irrelevant to them.
11/27/2012 9:27:09 AM
User
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 303
I'm sorry, I did not intend to suggest NXN is irrelevant. My intent was similar to Offical in that I believe the Chantilly program took its best shot at qualifying for both NXN and FL. And as much as some may disagree, I too appluad the attempt. And by that I appluad McGorty's teammates for accepting the challenge to qualify without McGorty - they were obviously deep enough to pull it off. My additional comments regarding NXN being weakend by the at-large selection made by Nike was solely based on the topic of McGorty and Chantilly. I did not intend to suggest that the meet overall was irrelevent or watered down as a whole. If anyone thinks I do not repect the historic relevence of teams such as YORK, they obviously don't know me very well. I appreciate the team championship NXN brings to the sport, and I too hope NXN and FL work things out to secure both have a place in history. But when it comes to a (forced) decision between the two meets, I personally favor the historic relevence Footlocker has in the sport. And it pleases me to see kids like Cheserek and McGorty appreciate the history of the event and want to add to it.
I'm sorry, I did not intend to suggest NXN is irrelevant. My intent was similar to Offical in that I believe the Chantilly program took its best shot at qualifying for both NXN and FL. And as much as some may disagree, I too appluad the attempt. And by that I appluad McGorty's teammates for accepting the challenge to qualify without McGorty - they were obviously deep enough to pull it off.

My additional comments regarding NXN being weakend by the at-large selection made by Nike was solely based on the topic of McGorty and Chantilly. I did not intend to suggest that the meet overall was irrelevent or watered down as a whole. If anyone thinks I do not repect the historic relevence of teams such as YORK, they obviously don't know me very well. I appreciate the team championship NXN brings to the sport, and I too hope NXN and FL work things out to secure both have a place in history. But when it comes to a (forced) decision between the two meets, I personally favor the historic relevence Footlocker has in the sport. And it pleases me to see kids like Cheserek and McGorty appreciate the history of the event and want to add to it.
11/27/2012 10:32:36 AM
Coach
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1289
@ADIHC95 The NXN field is more than just individual competition, so for you to say the field was weakened because one guy chose FL over NXN - while predictable - is not necessarily correct. In reality, NXN wasn't weakened this year by McGorty's absence any more than Footlocker wasn't weakened last year by Sarah Baxter's absence. Both meets will be plenty exciting this year, just as they were last year as well.
@ADIHC95
The NXN field is more than just individual competition, so for you to say the field was weakened because one guy chose FL over NXN - while predictable - is not necessarily correct. In reality, NXN wasn't weakened this year by McGorty's absence any more than Footlocker wasn't weakened last year by Sarah Baxter's absence. Both meets will be plenty exciting this year, just as they were last year as well.

You must be logged in to comment.

Click Here to Log In.