What makes the Meet of Champions truly great?
10/28/2012 7:55:48 PM
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The champions of course. The coaches and athletes that train all year for this event poured their hearts out to make this year's event extraordinary. I loved the races and the people from all over the state because these kids left it all on the field and deserve any accolades I can give and more. I hope everyone's experience was great and for those who followed the mid-year rule change fiasco that led to our kids not being able to compete as a team, our boys would have finished third based on their finish times (the best that I could estimate). Water under the bridge now, on to high school next year and a whole new experience awaits them. Congratulations to the Sheets brothers for an incredible display of athleticism and endurance. (The rest of this post was an irresponsible rant. I apologize for things that were said that were confrontational).
The champions of course. The coaches and athletes that train all year for this event poured their hearts out to make this year's event extraordinary. I loved the races and the people from all over the state because these kids left it all on the field and deserve any accolades I can give and more.

I hope everyone's experience was great and for those who followed the mid-year rule change fiasco that led to our kids not being able to compete as a team, our boys would have finished third based on their finish times (the best that I could estimate). Water under the bridge now, on to high school next year and a whole new experience awaits them. Congratulations to the Sheets brothers for an incredible display of athleticism and endurance.

(The rest of this post was an irresponsible rant. I apologize for things that were said that were confrontational).
10/28/2012 9:11:14 PM
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You're right that the kids are what make the MOC truly special, but the people who work so hard to put it on are the ones that make it possible. The KTCCCA is an open organization. You can join, and you can help make the meet better. I'm absolutely positive that you would have no problem being delegated any of the tasks listed above. The starting line has been debated a lot on here (you can search for it). The merits of the hill can be debated, of course, but one thing is certain: the starting line itself is measured and arced every year so that each box runs the same actual distance to the first turn.
You're right that the kids are what make the MOC truly special, but the people who work so hard to put it on are the ones that make it possible. The KTCCCA is an open organization. You can join, and you can help make the meet better. I'm absolutely positive that you would have no problem being delegated any of the tasks listed above.

The starting line has been debated a lot on here (you can search for it). The merits of the hill can be debated, of course, but one thing is certain: the starting line itself is measured and arced every year so that each box runs the same actual distance to the first turn.
10/28/2012 9:25:41 PM
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[quote=Kraigschell] a:) There is no reason that the results should take so long and have so many inaccuracies. This is the 21st century after all and it was shameful how baddly it was handled. The results could have been and should have been available as soon as the race was over since you used RF tags.[/quote] As a hi-tek operator (VERY STRESSFUL JOB!!) myself I wish it was that easy. You would think all you have to do is print out the times/results and walk away. There is always something that happens such as forgetting to change a setting from one meet to the next which can throw off the results for any given race. [quote=Kraigschell] b:) How about a fair start where everyone starts on a level, equidistant path to the first turn. It sounds self evident that a race should be fair to everyone in it but kids in the higher number starting lanes didn't have a chance of getting a good start, having to run up hill and farther to the first turn than the kids in the lower number lanes. Our kids were luckier than most but many were not so lucky. Not to mention the dangers of having 506 kids running in a horse pasture fighting for position. There could even be seeding and multiple waves. However it is done, there are options to make it more fair and more safe without diminishing the race itself. [/quote] Kind of hard to justify. Madysin Peeples started at the bottom of the hill and finished first in the Middle School Girls Championship, she pretty much led the race from start to finish.
Kraigschell wrote:


a:) There is no reason that the results should take so long and have so many inaccuracies. This is the 21st century after all and it was shameful how baddly it was handled. The results could have been and should have been available as soon as the race was over since you used RF tags.


As a hi-tek operator (VERY STRESSFUL JOB!!) myself I wish it was that easy. You would think all you have to do is print out the times/results and walk away. There is always something that happens such as forgetting to change a setting from one meet to the next which can throw off the results for any given race.

Kraigschell wrote:

b:) How about a fair start where everyone starts on a level, equidistant path to the first turn. It sounds self evident that a race should be fair to everyone in it but kids in the higher number starting lanes didn't have a chance of getting a good start, having to run up hill and farther to the first turn than the kids in the lower number lanes. Our kids were luckier than most but many were not so lucky. Not to mention the dangers of having 506 kids running in a horse pasture fighting for position. There could even be seeding and multiple waves. However it is done, there are options to make it more fair and more safe without diminishing the race itself.

Kind of hard to justify. Madysin Peeples started at the bottom of the hill and finished first in the Middle School Girls Championship, she pretty much led the race from start to finish.
10/28/2012 10:00:17 PM
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[quote] e:) The same can be said for the shirts, a 45 minute wait to buy the shirt and the iron-ons that go on it and then a half hour wait to have them pressed on? Where else have you ever seen such an inept system? The kids and the coaches and the parents, all getting together for their kids to compete, make a great experience for everyone and the MoC allows that to happen but let's give credit where it is due, to the kids. The management of the meet could do so much better if their prioritiies were on improving the event and not worrying about home schooled kids competing on a team (it's not like they pay taxes in that community or anything) or small community schools working together to build a program.[/quote] @Kraigschell The shirts can be bought online any time after the meet, so there's no need to wait in line. I learned after the first year to bring a thermos. The people who put on this meet do an incredible, yet utterly thankless job. There are complaints every year, but someone is doing something right because the meet just keeps growing. I know they would appreciate your volunteer help as well.


e:) The same can be said for the shirts, a 45 minute wait to buy the shirt and the iron-ons that go on it and then a half hour wait to have them pressed on? Where else have you ever seen such an inept system?

The kids and the coaches and the parents, all getting together for their kids to compete, make a great experience for everyone and the MoC allows that to happen but let's give credit where it is due, to the kids. The management of the meet could do so much better if their prioritiies were on improving the event and not worrying about home schooled kids competing on a team (it's not like they pay taxes in that community or anything) or small community schools working together to build a program.


@Kraigschell

The shirts can be bought online any time after the meet, so there's no need to wait in line.

I learned after the first year to bring a thermos.

The people who put on this meet do an incredible, yet utterly thankless job. There are complaints every year, but someone is doing something right because the meet just keeps growing. I know they would appreciate your volunteer help as well.
10/28/2012 10:11:07 PM
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@Kraigschell a:) There is no reason that the results should take so long and have so many inaccuracies. This is the 21st century after all and it was shameful how baddly it was handled. The results could have been and should have been available as soon as the race was over since you used RF tags. For the second year in a row, trophies were given out only to take them back because they only counted the top three runners instead of the top five. [i]It's rather obvious that you have never been a meet director or finish line operator! It's not nearly as straight forward as you would like to imagine and not nearly as fast as you would like to believe. The absolute fastest I have seen at a large meet is maybe 30-45 minutes after each race, most take an hour or so. I am disappointed that the RF ID system has not worked better but it's certainly not for a lack of effort.[/i] b:) How about a fair start where everyone starts on a level, equidistant path to the first turn. It sounds self evident that a race should be fair to everyone in it but kids in the higher number starting lanes didn't have a chance of getting a good start, having to run up hill and farther to the first turn than the kids in the lower number lanes. Our kids were luckier than most but many were not so lucky. Not to mention the dangers of having 506 kids running in a horse pasture fighting for position. There could even be seeding and multiple waves. However it is done, there are options to make it more fair and more safe without diminishing the race itself. [i]As BCrumbo stated, the starting line is equal distant, the only issue is the hill and as Purplestrider stated, your complaints don't hold much water. In the MS boys race, the only race you were interested in, North Oldham won from 88, Meade 2nd from 69 and College View third from 62. The hill was a virtual non issue to the top teams and I suspect not a significant issue to for others.[/i] c:) A sound system that will reach the entire grounds rather than just at the gate so when announcements are made, everyone can hear them. Why not have more speakers throughout the area considering there were thousand of kids and their supporting families and coaches. [i]The guy (Jim) who volunteered to bring his sound system would, I'm sure, be happy to have your help running cables all over the place, and figure out how to keep thousands of people from tearing them up. Note: I have only been to one meet where you could hear the P/A system across all of tent city. Even the P/A system at NCAA Nationals does not reach tent city. Most meets don't have a P/A system at all![/i] d:) More vendors for coffee and hot choclate and better organization so people do not have to wait a half hour in line for a cup and then get back in line for the hot liquid to fill it. There should be a lot of people, more than willing to provide over priced food and drink to the masses. Volunteer parents at all the other meets I have been to do a much better job. [i]Volunteer parents at other meets don't handle 4000+ runners plus spectators! I don 't know about getting hot chocolate but when I got my lunch the wait was only maybe 5-7 minutes for a steak sandwich and fries, not bad.[/i] e:) The same can be said for the shirts, a 45 minute wait to buy the shirt and the iron-ons that go on it and then a half hour wait to have them pressed on? Where else have you ever seen such an inept system? [i]The difference here is that they custom make the shirts. I have seen this system used at numerous big meets, like USATF Nationals, and have yet to see short lines and quick turn-around. If you don't like the wait then don't wait.[/i]
@Kraigschell

a:) There is no reason that the results should take so long and have so many inaccuracies. This is the 21st century after all and it was shameful how baddly it was handled. The results could have been and should have been available as soon as the race was over since you used RF tags. For the second year in a row, trophies were given out only to take them back because they only counted the top three runners instead of the top five.

It's rather obvious that you have never been a meet director or finish line operator! It's not nearly as straight forward as you would like to imagine and not nearly as fast as you would like to believe. The absolute fastest I have seen at a large meet is maybe 30-45 minutes after each race, most take an hour or so. I am disappointed that the RF ID system has not worked better but it's certainly not for a lack of effort.

b:) How about a fair start where everyone starts on a level, equidistant path to the first turn. It sounds self evident that a race should be fair to everyone in it but kids in the higher number starting lanes didn't have a chance of getting a good start, having to run up hill and farther to the first turn than the kids in the lower number lanes. Our kids were luckier than most but many were not so lucky. Not to mention the dangers of having 506 kids running in a horse pasture fighting for position. There could even be seeding and multiple waves. However it is done, there are options to make it more fair and more safe without diminishing the race itself.

As BCrumbo stated, the starting line is equal distant, the only issue is the hill and as Purplestrider stated, your complaints don't hold much water. In the MS boys race, the only race you were interested in, North Oldham won from 88, Meade 2nd from 69 and College View third from 62. The hill was a virtual non issue to the top teams and I suspect not a significant issue to for others.

c:) A sound system that will reach the entire grounds rather than just at the gate so when announcements are made, everyone can hear them. Why not have more speakers throughout the area considering there were thousand of kids and their supporting families and coaches.

The guy (Jim) who volunteered to bring his sound system would, I'm sure, be happy to have your help running cables all over the place, and figure out how to keep thousands of people from tearing them up. Note: I have only been to one meet where you could hear the P/A system across all of tent city. Even the P/A system at NCAA Nationals does not reach tent city. Most meets don't have a P/A system at all!

d:) More vendors for coffee and hot choclate and better organization so people do not have to wait a half hour in line for a cup and then get back in line for the hot liquid to fill it. There should be a lot of people, more than willing to provide over priced food and drink to the masses. Volunteer parents at all the other meets I have been to do a much better job.

Volunteer parents at other meets don't handle 4000+ runners plus spectators! I don 't know about getting hot chocolate but when I got my lunch the wait was only maybe 5-7 minutes for a steak sandwich and fries, not bad.

e:) The same can be said for the shirts, a 45 minute wait to buy the shirt and the iron-ons that go on it and then a half hour wait to have them pressed on? Where else have you ever seen such an inept system?

The difference here is that they custom make the shirts. I have seen this system used at numerous big meets, like USATF Nationals, and have yet to see short lines and quick turn-around. If you don't like the wait then don't wait.
10/28/2012 10:12:56 PM
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@backofthepack What is the website to purchase the shirts? Also we were informed there was a website to purchase pictures, do you have that?
@backofthepack
What is the website to purchase the shirts? Also we were informed there was a website to purchase pictures, do you have that?
10/28/2012 10:26:11 PM
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@dadismank Photos- www.atomic-rhino-events.com or http://www.wowtrackshots.com Two groups took photos Can't find the email about the T shirts website
@dadismank

Photos- www.atomic-rhino-events.com or http://www.wowtrackshots.com

Two groups took photos

Can't find the email about the T shirts website
10/28/2012 10:34:04 PM
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Fine Designs did the shirts. www.fdsportswear.com. The website might be having trouble right now, but I've ordered from them several times and gotten what I asked for with good service, even months after a meet. If you go to the website, you can navigate to MOC under the "events" menu. And no, I'm not affiliated with Fine Designs in any way. I just always look for a way to avoid standing in line.
Fine Designs did the shirts. www.fdsportswear.com. The website might be having trouble right now, but I've ordered from them several times and gotten what I asked for with good service, even months after a meet.

If you go to the website, you can navigate to MOC under the "events" menu.

And no, I'm not affiliated with Fine Designs in any way. I just always look for a way to avoid standing in line.
10/28/2012 10:43:14 PM
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THANKS A BUNCH GREAT WEEKEND, THE KIDS HAD A BLAST!
THANKS A BUNCH
GREAT WEEKEND, THE KIDS HAD A BLAST!
10/29/2012 6:03:09 AM
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[i]Re: For the second year in a row, trophies were given out only to take them back because they only counted the top three runners instead of the top five.[/i] As unfortunate as this would be, bear in mind that it's not like someone went back and manually changed the results, that just those kids had results which imported incorrectly, or anything lie that. The problem isn't with the hytek operator anyhow, it's typically in getting correct finish line places to the operator. Bottom line is that if Frank can't get results out as fast as people would like, no one will. Congrats to all on what seems like a great meet.
Re: For the second year in a row, trophies were given out only to take them back because they only counted the top three runners instead of the top five.

As unfortunate as this would be, bear in mind that it's not like someone went back and manually changed the results, that just those kids had results which imported incorrectly, or anything lie that. The problem isn't with the hytek operator anyhow, it's typically in getting correct finish line places to the operator. Bottom line is that if Frank can't get results out as fast as people would like, no one will.

Congrats to all on what seems like a great meet.
10/29/2012 6:20:11 AM
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To responses like the one above,I usually don't even take time to address. This year was a bigger meet to put on with the most rude bunch of parents I have ever been around. People crossing ropes and going into the dog park and countless other things. As it was stated above we will take any help you want to give. $15 membership will get you a very active role in the organization. We have meetings to decide rule changes, how to make meets better and to get help for a meet. We had over 4300 athletes and got the results out, with a new chip timing system, that the KTCCCA bought. It was not as timely as we would have liked but in the end it was very accurate. Working countless numbers of huge meets this meet is beyond anything in the country. We bought they system , as I am sure you don't know, to help with safety and inaccuracies. There is no way we would have done that finish line with limited number of people to help and not gotten someone hurt with ropes and chutes. The chip timing system works very well and we got the issues fixed and results out. It will be as good as the last four races were in the future. One of the major issues is that the meet director cares so much about getting the kids to race, that he worked close to 80 hours this week taking changes well after the deadline. This is due to coaches that can't read instructions or don't do their job. He didn't want a kid not to run because of an adult mistake. In closing this meet is a coaches meet. We had 1 current coach help with the meet. We had close to 10 retired coaches and founding members of the organization come set the course up and work the meet. This is because of their love of the sport. Without these guys this meet would have never became what it is.
To responses like the one above,I usually don't even take time to address. This year was a bigger meet to put on with the most rude bunch of parents I have ever been around. People crossing ropes and going into the dog park and countless other things.

As it was stated above we will take any help you want to give. $15 membership will get you a very active role in the organization. We have meetings to decide rule changes, how to make meets better and to get help for a meet. We had over 4300 athletes and got the results out, with a new chip timing system, that the KTCCCA bought. It was not as timely as we would have liked but in the end it was very accurate. Working countless numbers of huge meets this meet is beyond anything in the country. We bought they system , as I am sure you don't know, to help with safety and inaccuracies. There is no way we would have done that finish line with limited number of people to help and not gotten someone hurt with ropes and chutes.

The chip timing system works very well and we got the issues fixed and results out. It will be as good as the last four races were in the future. One of the major issues is that the meet director cares so much about getting the kids to race, that he worked close to 80 hours this week taking changes well after the deadline. This is due to coaches that can't read instructions or don't do their job. He didn't want a kid not to run because of an adult mistake.

In closing this meet is a coaches meet. We had 1 current coach help with the meet. We had close to 10 retired coaches and founding members of the organization come set the course up and work the meet. This is because of their love of the sport. Without these guys this meet would have never became what it is.
10/29/2012 10:54:56 AM
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@teamkyking Amen to that! Great bunch of folks doing too much work. They need more volunteers!
@teamkyking

Amen to that! Great bunch of folks doing too much work. They need more volunteers!
10/29/2012 11:09:06 AM
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BTW, only the http://www.wowtrackshots.com took pictures. I got an email from the other group (Mark Lynch) saying that they (Atomic Rhino) were not contracted to take MOC photos this year. WowTrackShots still working on uploading the galleries of photos.
BTW, only the http://www.wowtrackshots.com took pictures. I got an email from the other group (Mark Lynch) saying that they (Atomic Rhino) were not contracted to take MOC photos this year. WowTrackShots still working on uploading the galleries of photos.
10/29/2012 11:13:57 AM
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48 hours and no results. Come on. Stop making excuses. Bigger meets have been posted within 24 hours. Sometimes before we get home.. We thank you for everything you do but this has to be human error.
48 hours and no results. Come on. Stop making excuses. Bigger meets have been posted within 24 hours. Sometimes before we get home.. We thank you for everything you do but this has to be human error.
10/29/2012 11:36:47 AM
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@KennyJoe Huh, what are you talking about? Results were posted by email early Sun morning and Jonathan posted on website later on. Darn good work for thousands of runners! ?:-I
@KennyJoe

Huh, what are you talking about? Results were posted by email early Sun morning and Jonathan posted on website later on. Darn good work for thousands of runners!
10/29/2012 11:47:42 AM
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@KennyJoe If it's the photos - I'm sitting at my desk right now going thru what's called post-processing where I tweak the lighting settings, color, etc....... In addition to announcing the meet, I had a few friends & family come over & shoot pics of the kids. All total, I think we had over 2500 photos but that's just a guesstimate. Sunday's & Monday's are the slowest times to upload photos and I decided to wait until the host server (in my case SmugMug) is more accommodating. And I'm headed over to work on a floor tile project for my real job once I start uploading the first batch - High School girls. I'll upload according to the race schedule; next will be HS boys.
@KennyJoe

If it's the photos - I'm sitting at my desk right now going thru what's called post-processing where I tweak the lighting settings, color, etc.......

In addition to announcing the meet, I had a few friends & family come over & shoot pics of the kids. All total, I think we had over 2500 photos but that's just a guesstimate. Sunday's & Monday's are the slowest times to upload photos and I decided to wait until the host server (in my case SmugMug) is more accommodating.

And I'm headed over to work on a floor tile project for my real job once I start uploading the first batch - High School girls. I'll upload according to the race schedule; next will be HS boys.
10/29/2012 11:52:09 AM
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@KennyJoe http://ky.milesplit.com/meets/119894-ktccca-meet-of-champions
@KennyJoe

http://ky.milesplit.com/meets/119894-ktccca-meet-of-champions
10/29/2012 3:28:26 PM
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To put some things in perspective, here is a look at what happened at the MOC. The biggest problem were the results and I take complete complete responsibility for that. This was the second year using the chip system. I have used it for road races and the last two Trinity/Valkyrie Invitationals. The system works great. The software is tricky and that was where my problem lay. I had to make decisions this week and some decisions led to the problems. First being Mr. Nice Guy, I spent a lot of time dealing with late entries, changes, questions about grades and schools, coaches not wanting to attend the meet then bowing to parental pressure to enter kids after the early deadline. On Saturday I kept getting fistfuls of changes for the same reason. As a result, I did not take care of some details. One thing I was going to do was pass out cards to the first ten finishers indicating place so they could go to the stage. A major simple detail that I finally got around to doing for the 4th & under races. No one is more disappointed in the results not being posted correctly than me. The parent of one of those young ladies that was supposed to be on the award stand came out and worked like a rented mule Thursday helping set up the course. After the awards mixup, he came to the trailer, left me a note about his daughter's placing, asked that I correct it when I get time and that was it. I have the ultimate respect for that parent. I did not get anything from the young lady's coach indicating their was a problem, but that was the coach's responsibility, not the parent. If I had the time, I could have double checked my software settings, gotten the finish cards done and spent time getting more help. Tim King sent out two requests for volunteer and officiating help. Jim Jarman sent out requests for help with awards. Both got little response. Saturday on a good race we had 9 people working the chute(judging the first 50, getting them in the chute, picking up fallen bodies, passing out medals to top 50, and providing water at the water table. At the high school state meet, we have had 9 people in the mouth of the chute, let alone along the chutes and in the back stringing, recording etc. We simply need more people to officiate and volunteer. Bob Stacey, Doug Allen, Dave Clark, and Kenny Morton are all officials who have worked the Olympic Trials. Anyone that works with them cannot help but learn how to officiate better. We have put out requests for officials. Working a meet like this can only help to improve your local meets. Tim King, Craig Hopkins, Barry Binkley, Barry Knapp, Dan Bertke and others have worked a huge number of NCAA, NAIA, high school, regional and national meets. Their expertise and knowledge is invaluable. You can't help but learn from them. In trying to save problems with non-race chips being read at the finish line, I broke the data up in to four separate databases each requiring different settings. In the end this increased my problems. Add to that the fact that I forgot to remove the middle school girls data during the boys middle school race. So I had two sets of data. That is where I stepped back & punted the data to Linda and Leslie to punch in to Hytek for team scores where the scoring had still been set for the high school- top 3 score. We had two laser printers crash on us and could not download a driver on the third printer we had which we could have used at the finish line. Bad planning. I had two of my best computer operators not able to come because they had tasks come up at their work at the last minute. They would have probably solved the problems in no time, but it fell on me. Obviously if you have great computer staff, they are in high demand. This weekend it just happened that the person that puts the bread on the table needed them more than me. While I was handling that, my name is on the contract with Lexington Parks and the insurance certificate so I had to handle phone calls about traffic backing up on Leestown, fans climbing the dog park fences and going in to the dog park itself, and people going up in the bleachers when the sportsmanship form coaches signed said that no one was to go in the bleachers. I mentioned this to one set of parents heading for the bleachers and the response was "He doesn't tell us anything!" T-shirts- Fine Designs handles national AAU events, NAIA events and has handle many USATF events. Six years ago they started out with only one location at the MOC. They increased to two, then this year three. If they are over priced, then don't buy them. If no one buys them at that price, then the prices come down. They are custom made, which is completely different than every meet in the state. Buy online and you don't have to wait. You want something extra special like a name or place on there, they can probably handle that through their online sales. T's Grab & Go has been a concessionaire for me for over ten years. He provides a variety of food and had a large staff. However, if everyone decides to eat at one time, there are going to be lines waiting. If the prices are too high, don't buy, bring your own in the future. PA system is only as good as the weather. We have done this meet before without a PA system on the course. If the wind is blowing east, you can't hear anything to the west and vice versa. We posted an awards and meet schedule. That was supposed to have been disseminated by the coaches from their email. As noted above, it might not have gotten done in many cases. Special thanks to Doug Allen, Barry Knapp, Bob Stacey, Raymond Hayes, Craig Hopkins, Jim Jarman, and Mike McDonald for helping set up the course Thursday and Friday. Leslie Smith and Linda Sarrett handled all the registration and the complaints and Jim Jarman, Chris Hawboldt and the Hayes's for handling the awards area. A special thanks to Bell County graduate James Brown who is now running at UK. James ran in this meet for the last eight years and responded to the request for help and handled passing out medals in the chute, a great example of one of our former athletes giving back to the sport. We could not have done without him. Mother/Coach Susan Brown should be proud. Besides not getting the results posted, the top 10 in the middle school and 6th grade races getting screwed, but the meet was not just about them. It was about every kid that competed Saturday. For those that didn't get to see the last few races, the meet is about the young man from Highlands Latin that ran the race of his life with a prosthesis or the young lady from Scott County with cerebral palsey that had a super day, or the young lady whose mother called me for her daughter's time in last place that didn't get recorded on the chips but I had her on the Lynx camera results because it was a great day for her as well. There were 3600 stories out there Saturday, great stories that only a few people will know about, but kids have been out exercising, competing and enjoying a sport they can enjoy the rest of their lives, wherever they are. Which brings me to where we need to go from here. 1. Concerns were voiced about having to combine schools to field a team. Running needs to be promoted from the grassroots at the elementary level. Soccer saw this long ago and started with youth teams. Cross country has a major advantage. The expense is a whole lot less. You don't have to start out with expensive uniforms and gear. In xc, the ground is always out there, 24-7. If there is a need for money, there are grants out there. In the age of childhood obesity, this sport is the biggest answer. Kids don't sit on the bench, they don't have to have skills, they just have to have hearts. Joy Heines got a grant from USA Track & Field www.usatf.org Those are available. Craig Hammons is a health initiative educator with Jefferson County Schools. He has developed cross country programs at a number of Jefferson County elementary schools. The meets I have worked for him I have seen all kinds of sizes and shapes and mental and physical capabilities but the kids are all being supported by the teams and their parents. Companies are willing to invest in programs that help kids. Ideally we should have a cross country team in every elementary school in the state. A weekly meet in a centralized location will draw tons of kids and parents. Somewhere out of that group of kids you will find parents who are willing to help and probably provide financial support. Ryan Murphy at Dunn Elementary in Louisville had nearly 130 kids running this year. Kris Krohn at Stopher, all the Oldham elementary schools, Kevin Jones at Wayne County-all of these have grown some great programs. Contact them for some tips. 2. The KTCCCA has purchased the chip timing system. We need more people to learn how to run the system and take the load off me. Kenni and Tim King know how to run the system but Tim had to be in charge of officials during the meet. The system is available to use if someone wants to learn and use for a road race or xc meet. The pre-meet chip programming, bib labelling etc can be labor intensive. For 4700 chips, I started almost three weeks ago but the majority of work had to be done following close of registration. 3. We need more track & xc officials and more volunteers. We need more James Browns, former athletes and parents to give back to the sport. Contact Gordon Bocock, Tim King, Jim Jarman, Bob Stacey, Doug Allen, myself or any other official to get involved. We put on the MOC, the Mason-Dixon Games, the middle school state track meet, the KHSAA hosts the state track & xc meets, there are meets all over that need officials and volunteers to work and we want them educated in order to run the events properly. 4. Coaches need to communicate with their parents and fans. Athletes are a reflection of their school. Parents are a reflection of the school as well. If information is important enough for a meet director to send out, then it is important enough to disseminate to the athletes AND parents and fans. Coaches also need to keep their Hytek databases correct as far as spelling of names and grades and check kytrackxc.com to make sure the data is correct. Many of the problems I had were due to being rolled over the milesplit page where they were incorrect because on coaches errors earlier in the season. Got an email from a parent this morning complaining that the son's name had been misspelled all year and the coach never changed it. 5. For a coach to say the MOC is only about money, I might suggest at least attending the meet to see what it is about before taking that message to the messageboard. The KTCCCA is a non-profit corporation set up to promote track & cross country opportunities. The money made from the meet goes to pay expenses-park rental, porta-toilets, police, parking, awards, rooms and meals for officials that spend days setting up, sanctioning and insurance, golf carts, medical staffing, chips, bibs, equipment. Anything left over goes for coaching education, equipment (we have four digital clocks around the state for use at meets-I have one, Bob Stacey, Tim King and Craig Hopkins-so we cover the state from one end to the other), we have four LASAMs for measuring the discus to speed up meets. The KTCCCA financed the surface at Mason County where 2000-3000 athletes compete every winter indoor season. KTCCCA helped Manual finance part of the surfacing for its track in order to get it installed a year early. All those funds have been paid back to the KTCCCA. The KTCCCA spent around $6000 sending elite athletes to the New Balance Nationals in North Carolina last June. The KTCCCA does have money available for projects that can benefit track & xc in the state. KTCCCA provides $250 to help support KTCCCA area championships in both track & xc. 6. Coaching education-coaches need to stay up on current trends in coaching. Coaches need to attend clinics to garner as much info as possible about the sport. Coaching elementary and middle school kids is different than coaching high school athletes which is different than coaching collegegiate athletes. I attended a meet in Ohio the last few years and a young lady coached by her father was a stellar 9-14 year old runner over the last few years, one of those that was usually finishing a minute ahead of all her competitors. The last meet I attended when she was in high school, she was beaten by the same girls she had easily beaten years before. As athletes mature, coaches have to be able to adapt to changes both physically and mentally. I have links to various clinic presentations on the www.ktccca.org webpage. First weekend in January we will have our annual KTCCCA clinic at the Clarion in Lexington. There will be a treasure trove of track & xc knowledge there. Plan to attend. KTCCCA has also hosted mini-clinics around the state. If interested, contact me. First one will be December 8 at the University of the Cumberlands in Williamsburg. 7. Finally due to the size of the MOC, those who competed Saturday are eligible to enter the Cross Country Youth National Championships in Terre Haute on the NCAA course December 1. It would be nice for someone to coordinate the top eight kids and more in the MOC and compete together as a club team in Terre Haute December 1. This is an age group meet based on ages at the end of the year, so there may be some variation from those in the same grade. The team awards should have been correct Saturday. There may be some small point differences in scores due to chips that showed without names due to changing divisions or bib changes that were not done Saturday. Anyone in the top 10 in the middle school and 6th grade championship races, Email me and I will get a medal or plate sent. If you got the wrong medal, let me know and I will have plate sent. If you did not get a medal, let me know and I will get that sent. Fmiklavcic@aol.com I will be in Cleveland until Thursday so I won't be able to get those out until after I get home. I am still trying to straighten out a few places and chips with no names. Hopefully will get that out soon. Also WOWTRACKSHOTS.COM was the meet photographer. Great photos there when they get posted. www.wowtrackshots.com
To put some things in perspective, here is a look at what happened at the MOC. The biggest problem were the results and I take complete
complete responsibility for that. This was the second year using the chip system. I have used it for road races and the last two Trinity/Valkyrie
Invitationals. The system works great. The software is tricky and that was where my problem lay. I had to make decisions this week and
some decisions led to the problems. First being Mr. Nice Guy, I spent a lot of time dealing with late entries, changes, questions about
grades and schools, coaches not wanting to attend the meet then bowing to parental pressure to enter kids after the early deadline. On Saturday I kept
getting fistfuls of changes for the same reason. As a result, I did not take care of some details. One thing I was going to do was pass out
cards to the first ten finishers indicating place so they could go to the stage. A major simple detail that I finally got around to doing for the
4th & under races.
No one is more disappointed in the results not being posted correctly than me. The parent of one of those young ladies that was supposed to be on the award stand
came out and worked like a rented mule Thursday helping set up the course. After the awards mixup, he came to the trailer, left me a note about his daughter's placing, asked
that I correct it when I get time and that was it. I have the ultimate respect for that parent. I did not get anything from the young lady's coach indicating their was
a problem, but that was the coach's responsibility, not the parent.
If I had the time, I could have double checked my software settings, gotten the finish cards done and spent time getting more help. Tim King sent
out two requests for volunteer and officiating help. Jim Jarman sent out requests for help with awards. Both got little response. Saturday
on a good race we had 9 people working the chute(judging the first 50, getting them in the chute, picking up fallen bodies, passing out medals to
top 50, and providing water at the water table. At the high school state meet, we have had 9 people in the mouth of the chute, let alone along the chutes
and in the back stringing, recording etc. We simply need more people to officiate and volunteer. Bob Stacey, Doug Allen, Dave Clark, and Kenny Morton are all officials
who have worked the Olympic Trials. Anyone that works with them cannot help but learn how to officiate better. We have put out requests for officials. Working a
meet like this can only help to improve your local meets. Tim King, Craig Hopkins, Barry Binkley, Barry Knapp, Dan Bertke and others have worked a huge number of NCAA, NAIA, high school,
regional and national meets. Their expertise and knowledge is invaluable. You can't help but learn from them.

In trying to save problems with non-race chips being read at the finish line, I broke the
data up in to four separate databases each requiring different settings. In the end this increased my problems. Add to that the fact that
I forgot to remove the middle school girls data during the boys middle school race. So I had two sets of data. That is where I stepped back
& punted the data to Linda and Leslie to punch in to Hytek for team scores where the scoring had still been set for the high school- top 3 score.

We had two laser printers crash on us and could not download a driver on the third printer we had which we could have used at the finish line.
Bad planning. I had two of my best computer operators not able to come because they had tasks come up at their work at the last minute. They
would have probably solved the problems in no time, but it fell on me. Obviously if you have great computer staff, they are in high demand. This
weekend it just happened that the person that puts the bread on the table needed them more than me. While I was handling that, my name is on the contract with Lexington
Parks and the insurance certificate so I had to handle phone calls about traffic backing up on Leestown, fans climbing the dog park fences and
going in to the dog park itself, and people going up in the bleachers when the sportsmanship form coaches signed said that no one was to go in the
bleachers. I mentioned this to one set of parents heading for the bleachers and the response was "He doesn't tell us anything!"

T-shirts- Fine Designs handles national AAU events, NAIA events and has handle many USATF events. Six years ago they started out with only one location
at the MOC. They increased to two, then this year three. If they are over priced, then don't buy them. If no one buys them at that price,
then the prices come down. They are custom made, which is completely different than every meet in the state. Buy online and you don't have to wait. You want something
extra special like a name or place on there, they can probably handle that through their online sales.
T's Grab & Go has been a concessionaire for me for over ten years. He provides a variety of food and had a large staff. However, if everyone decides to eat at one time,
there are going to be lines waiting. If the prices are too high, don't buy, bring your own in the future.
PA system is only as good as the weather. We have done this meet before without a PA system on the course. If the wind is blowing east, you can't hear anything to the west and vice versa.
We posted an awards and meet schedule. That was supposed to have been disseminated by the coaches from their email. As noted above, it might not have gotten done in many cases.

Special thanks to Doug Allen, Barry Knapp, Bob Stacey, Raymond Hayes, Craig Hopkins, Jim Jarman, and Mike McDonald for helping set up the course Thursday and Friday.
Leslie Smith and Linda Sarrett handled all the registration and the complaints and Jim Jarman, Chris Hawboldt and the Hayes's for handling the awards area.
A special thanks to Bell County graduate James Brown who is now running at UK. James ran in this meet for the last eight years and responded to the request for help and
handled passing out medals in the chute, a great example of one of our former athletes giving back to the sport. We could not have done without him. Mother/Coach Susan Brown should be
proud.
Besides not getting the results posted, the top 10 in the middle school and 6th grade races getting screwed, but the meet was not just about them. It was about every kid that competed Saturday.
For those that didn't get to see the last few races, the meet is about the young man from Highlands Latin that ran the race of his life with a prosthesis or the young lady from Scott
County with cerebral palsey that had a super day, or the young lady whose mother called me for her daughter's time in last place that didn't get recorded on the chips but I had her on the Lynx
camera results because it was a great day for her as well. There were 3600 stories out there Saturday, great stories that only a few people will know about, but kids have been out exercising,
competing and enjoying a sport they can enjoy the rest of their lives, wherever they are. Which brings me to where we need to go from here.
1. Concerns were voiced about having to combine schools to field a team. Running needs to be promoted from the grassroots at the elementary level. Soccer saw this long ago and started with youth
teams. Cross country has a major advantage. The expense is a whole lot less. You don't have to start out with expensive uniforms and gear. In xc, the ground is always out there, 24-7.
If there is a need for money, there are grants out there. In the age of childhood obesity, this sport is the biggest answer. Kids don't sit on the bench, they don't have to have skills, they just
have to have hearts. Joy Heines got a grant from USA Track & Field www.usatf.org Those are available. Craig Hammons is a health initiative educator with Jefferson County Schools. He has developed
cross country programs at a number of Jefferson County elementary schools. The meets I have worked for him I have seen all kinds of sizes and shapes and mental and physical capabilities but the kids are
all being supported by the teams and their parents. Companies are willing to invest in programs that help kids. Ideally we should have a cross country team in every elementary school in the state. A weekly
meet in a centralized location will draw tons of kids and parents. Somewhere out of that group of kids you will find parents who are willing to help and probably provide financial support.
Ryan Murphy at Dunn Elementary in Louisville had nearly 130 kids running this year. Kris Krohn at Stopher, all the Oldham elementary schools, Kevin Jones at Wayne County-all of these have grown some great programs. Contact them for
some tips.
2. The KTCCCA has purchased the chip timing system. We need more people to learn how to run the system and take the load off me. Kenni and Tim King know how to run the system but Tim had to be in charge of officials during the meet.
The system is available to use if someone wants to learn and use for a road race or xc meet. The pre-meet chip programming, bib labelling etc can be labor intensive. For 4700 chips, I started almost three weeks ago but the majority of work
had to be done following close of registration.
3. We need more track & xc officials and more volunteers. We need more James Browns, former athletes and parents to give back to the sport. Contact Gordon Bocock, Tim King, Jim Jarman, Bob Stacey, Doug Allen, myself or any other official to get
involved. We put on the MOC, the Mason-Dixon Games, the middle school state track meet, the KHSAA hosts the state track & xc meets, there are meets all over that need officials and volunteers to work and we want them educated
in order to run the events properly.
4. Coaches need to communicate with their parents and fans. Athletes are a reflection of their school. Parents are a reflection of the school as well. If information is important enough for a meet director to send out,
then it is important enough to disseminate to the athletes AND parents and fans. Coaches also need to keep their Hytek databases correct as far as spelling of names and grades and check kytrackxc.com to make sure the data is correct. Many of the problems
I had were due to being rolled over the milesplit page where they were incorrect because on coaches errors earlier in the season. Got an email from a parent this morning complaining that the son's name had been misspelled all year and the coach never changed
it.
5. For a coach to say the MOC is only about money, I might suggest at least attending the meet to see what it is about before taking that message to the messageboard. The KTCCCA is a non-profit corporation set up to promote track & cross country
opportunities. The money made from the meet goes to pay expenses-park rental, porta-toilets, police, parking, awards, rooms and meals for officials that spend days setting up, sanctioning and insurance, golf carts, medical staffing, chips, bibs,
equipment. Anything left over goes for coaching education, equipment (we have four digital clocks around the state for use at meets-I have one, Bob Stacey, Tim King and Craig Hopkins-so we cover the state from one end to the other), we have four LASAMs
for measuring the discus to speed up meets. The KTCCCA financed the surface at Mason County where 2000-3000 athletes compete every winter indoor season. KTCCCA helped Manual finance part of the surfacing for its track in order to get it installed a
year early. All those funds have been paid back to the KTCCCA. The KTCCCA spent around $6000 sending elite athletes to the New Balance Nationals in North Carolina last June. The KTCCCA does have money available for projects that can benefit track & xc
in the state. KTCCCA provides $250 to help support KTCCCA area championships in both track & xc.
6. Coaching education-coaches need to stay up on current trends in coaching. Coaches need to attend clinics to garner as much info as possible about the sport. Coaching elementary and middle school kids is different than coaching high school athletes
which is different than coaching collegegiate athletes. I attended a meet in Ohio the last few years and a young lady coached by her father was a stellar 9-14 year old runner over the last few years, one of those that was usually finishing a minute
ahead of all her competitors. The last meet I attended when she was in high school, she was beaten by the same girls she had easily beaten years before. As athletes mature, coaches have to be able to adapt to changes both physically and mentally.
I have links to various clinic presentations on the www.ktccca.org webpage. First weekend in January we will have our annual KTCCCA clinic at the Clarion in Lexington. There will be a treasure trove of track & xc knowledge there. Plan to attend.
KTCCCA has also hosted mini-clinics around the state. If interested, contact me. First one will be December 8 at the University of the Cumberlands in Williamsburg.
7. Finally due to the size of the MOC, those who competed Saturday are eligible to enter the Cross Country Youth National Championships in Terre Haute on the NCAA course December 1. It would be nice for someone to coordinate the top eight kids and more in the
MOC and compete together as a club team in Terre Haute December 1. This is an age group meet based on ages at the end of the year, so there may be some variation from those in the same grade.

The team awards should have been correct Saturday. There may be some small point differences in scores due to chips that showed without names due to changing divisions or bib changes
that were not done Saturday.
Anyone in the top 10 in the middle school and 6th grade championship races, Email me and I will get a medal or plate sent. If you got the wrong medal, let me know and I will have plate
sent. If you did not get a medal, let me know and I will get that sent. Fmiklavcic@aol.com I will be in Cleveland until Thursday so I won't be able to get those out until after I get home.

I am still trying to straighten out a few places and chips with no names. Hopefully will get that out soon.
Also WOWTRACKSHOTS.COM was the meet photographer. Great photos there when they get posted. www.wowtrackshots.com
10/29/2012 5:22:34 PM
User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 572
Should be required reading before anyone complains about any meet.
Should be required reading before anyone complains about any meet.
10/30/2012 11:02:31 AM
Coach
SUBSCRIBER
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 53
@backofthepack Yep, and rants can be and was an embarrassment to our school and the child running, because neither his runner nor the coach had any complaints. My apologies go to ALL the people who work so hard to make this happen. Nice job folks. Lots of hard work by so few. And special thanks to the ladies up front for all their help.
@backofthepack Yep, and rants can be and was an embarrassment to our school and the child running, because neither his runner nor the coach had any complaints.
My apologies go to ALL the people who work so hard to make this happen.
Nice job folks. Lots of hard work by so few.
And special thanks to the ladies up front for all their help.

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