We are sorry that you spent all year competeing to get better, we are sorry your parents drove two hours to bring your pole so you could compete to see who is the best. We are sorry you spent 100's of dollars to buy a pole to compete with,but its hot out here and we want to go home early, so we are only going to wait 10 minutes for you to go run the 4x100 with your teammates. Then we will scratch you from this event. This is what my daughter was told when her coach filed a complaint at the middle school meet. The meet was just over half way done. I understand most of the workers are volunteers trust me I've worked at more meets for other schools this year than my own. But I realize these boys and girls put a lot of hours of practice into getting better, and I would never do this to anyone's kid, just so I could go home early. She was told they gave her more time than they should have, but the coach was given a packet that mentioned 45 minutes was too long but did not mention a 10 minute time limit for checking in and out of events.
As meet director, this was the information provided to coaches and officials:
ALSO THOSE IN THE FIELD EVENTS, COMMUNICATE WITH THE OFFICIALS, ESPECIALLY IN THE HIGH JUMP. IF AN ATHLETE IS IN THE HIGH JUMP AND RUNNING EVENT, THEY ARE NOT TO CHECK OUT FOR 45 MINUTES WHILE THE HEATS ARE BEING LINED UP AND RUN. THEY ARE TO CHECK IN WITH THE RUNNING EVENT CLERK, LET THAT CLERK KNOW THEY ARE RETURNING TO THE FIELD EVENT TO COMPLETE THEIR JUMPS. THEY NEED TO BE BACK TO THE RUNNING EVENT WHEN THE HEATS LEAVE THE CLERKING AREA. IT IS NOT THE ATHLETE’S OPTION AS TO WHEN THEY ARE RESTED UP TO GET BACK TO THE FIELD EVENTS. IF THEY ARE NOT BACK TO THE EVENT, THE BAR WILL GO UP FOR THEIR REMAINING JUMP(S).
The directions are clear. It is the athlete's responsibility when they are involved in more than one event. The athlete was to check out of the field event, in to the running event and could return to the field event and then be back when the relay team left the clerking area. Since the relay teams did not leave the clerking area until 2 minutes before each race, there was less than a 10 minute window for the athlete to leave to run the 4x100 and return easily. There were five other vaulters left at that time who took 10 jumps at the next height, 11 jumps at the next height and six at the final height. Trashing the vault official because he left by the time there was a protest brought to the referee's attention after the official had conducted those 27 jumps of the other athletes, finalized his sheet, turned it in to the Hytek operator, gone to the restroom, gone to get something to eat for lunch and then left. The protest was turned in long after the half hour window of posting results. The official completed his assignment according to procedures. He wasn't going to keep the vaulters waiting in the heat for someone who might have been one of those that left or went to the hospital.
- Ironically, I happened to be announcing a portion of the meet from the pole vault venue when the official asked me to page a missing girl vaulter - which I did a couple of times. Don't remember the name as I read so many Saturday. Stayed until all of the 4x1 heats were completed then returned after the boys disc to watch some of the 3200.
- Yes she did check in and out of the run multiple times to jump. The last time she did they only gave her ten minutes. Yes we were told you announced her name, but I was sitting under the trees and could see you but not hear you. In the crowd of kids in the staging area there is no speaker and no way to hear the announcements. I do like your official answer to my post, but once again we are there for the kids. The pole vault finished hours before the rest of the meet. I'm sure not one of the girls would have complained about waiting...it was the adults that were in a hurry to GO HOME.
- Just noticed the rest of the official post about going to the bathroom and getting something to eat.....IF MY COACH WASN'T WORKING YOUR MEET I COULD HAVE GOT THE PROTEST TO YOU IN A TIMELY MANNER. SHE WAS NOT SCHEDULED TO WORK IT, BUT WAS ASKED TO HELP SO SHE WAS NICE AND DID....GUESS WE SHOULDN'T BE NICE SINCE, NO ONE ELSE IS.........on a side note I didn't say anything about the official running pole vault, just the answer given to an official protest and how little the adults at these meets care about the kids.
After emailing the head official, Randy Crist, I have the specific answers/reasons we were not able to provide yesterday. First, the request was apparently to go back to the pole vault pit after the event was completed and lower the bar for your girl to jump at 7-6. Very specific vertical jumps rule is that the bar does not go back down except in a jump off for first place. The results were not going to be changed and your athlete was not going to be allowed to jump at 7-6. Your assertion was that the officials didn't care and were in a hurry to get home. Randy Crist is one of the finest pole vault officials in the state. He has coached for 30 years and the pole vault was his specialty in the technique events. He has refereed this meet and the state high school meet for many years so he knows the rules, procedures. Here is his response about the young lady's absence and return:
She left the during the girls 1600's. After we had already waited 10 minutes just for her I saw that there were still two sections of the boys 1600 left, so Jim called for her twice over the PA system (by name and school) to return to the PV. We waited five more minutes then moved up. After finishing the next height I went and checked to see if her team was in either of the first couple of sections of the 4x100, didn't see them and moved up again. She returned after 40 minutes and I told her she could just at that height (I think 8') or that she was in for a scoring place already if she just wanted to take the place she already had. She chose not to jump again. She easily could have got in a couple more heights, and probably finished, during the 1600's.
Randy bent ovder back ward for your athlete by waiting 10 minutes, calling her over the PA system twice, and waiting an additional five minutes. . The pole vault pit was 80 feet from the staging area before the relay teams were put on the track. The pit was 150 feet from the area where the relay teams gathered and 180 feet from the head clerks table. The girls sections of the 1600 were finished at 1:07, 1:14, 1:23, the boys sections of the 1600 were finished at 1:32, 1:39, 1:49. I was at the clerks desk for the girls 4x100 check, the third heat which your athlete ran in was not checked in until 1:50. Somewhere betwee 1:05 and 1:40, your athlete disappeared. The bar moved up. Your other statement was also incorrect. She was not scratched from the event. When she returned, Randy Crist offered her the opportunity of the three jumps she earned by clearing 7-0. She refused to jump at 8' which was where the bar was at at that time. (Again the bar does not move down after competition has started). Assuming all the other athletes wouldn't mind waiting the 45 minutes for an athlete that can't be found puts all those athletes that follow the procedures at a disadvantage in the competition.
Your last statement, however, takes the cakes, that the adults at this meet don't care about the kids. I beg to differ with you. Your request was a simple violation of the rules which would have infringed on the other 1500 kids that did everything right Saturday. All of the officials were out there because of the kids and not because they don't care about the kids.
It appears everyone is out to cheat your daughter. I've only seen you post twice on this site and each time it was to complain about officials wronging you and yours. Love the statement about driving 2 hours to the middle school state meet just to bring a pole.
My question is this: what's the point of displaying your displeasure for the officials on here, other then to display your displeasure for the officials? What's the purpose?
Complaining for the sake of complaining isn't very productive. If you're not happy with a given situation get all the facts first then talk with the people involved. Dogging the officials on here doesn't solve a thing.
96.3% of all the officials at the state meets know the rules very well, probably a lot better then parents that spend 100s of dollars on a pole.
Appears coach (official) Crist gave your daughter every opportunity to finish out the event in question. To speculate, what happened to your daughter, to the official just wanting to get out of the heat and go home early, is in my opinion a very arrogant statement.
The officials deserve better!
- Wow seems like I struck a nerve. Seems like a lot more time has been taken to prove the officials are the good guys here, than the issue was given at the meet. I admit the two post have been negative, but I am not making up lies. Both my post have been the facts. At the state meet, the check list for triple jump at a meet mentions setting up a 32 foot board and 28 foot board, and other boards for the athletes safety. This was not done, so we asked and was told no. That seems to be an issue with the official, the other sessions with a different official each had 3 or more boards, for athletes safety I would assume. The times stated in the above answers were a little off, but it was hot out so I guess we all were alittle delirious. Fact: There are no speakers in the staging area for the athletes to hear. Fact: The official paper passed out to the coaches stated 45 minutes as being too long to be away from an event no mention of 10 minutes. Fact: The National Handbook we had stated the time limit to be set by the official (see above 45 minute note). Fact: My daughter checked in and out of the running,vaulting and triple jumping events multiple times and no official said you need to stay here until your group comes onto the track, or you only have 10 minutes so get back as soon as possible. Fact: These are young children we are talking about, they have so many adults telling them what to do at these meets, how are they to know which over rules the other, they listen to the last person that yelled at them. In my daughters case that was the 4X100 official saying to stay in the staging area until your turn. Were should I display my displeasure at? I brought it up at the meet and the answer was " I'm only a volunteer I do what I'm told", and the complaint was answered with "I'm sorry the officials have gone home". If the coach had been given the answer above about the time limit and had the chance to discuss this with the official than I would not bring it up here. I knew as soon as the bar went up that my daughter was done, I did not ask for the officials to come back out to the pit. I bring it up here in hopes that maybe some thought will be given to the real reason we are all in this sport for the kids. What ever the rules are, I have heard and read many different versions, they are not relayed to the kids, could be my fault, coaches, officials, I don't really know. The above post mentioned the offical bending over backwards by waiting 10 minutes, etc. etc. Then giving her the opportunity to jump at current height, (it was 8 foot 6,) her PR was 7 foot, so she politely said no thanks and left. So that was not bending over backwards, he was doing his job as he saw fit. When I worked regionals I waited as long as needed to let the athletes get a fair chance at doing their best. I got no complaints from athletes or parents that waiting longer was a bad thing. It gave the athletes running multiple events (sometimes 3 events ) plenty of time to catch their breath and perform at their best. The pole vault is one of the first events completed at these meets, mainly because of the small number of kids trying it. So waiting longer would not have affected the meet or the 1500 other kids that followed the rules mentioned above at all. In this instance the girls/boys were in shade with a water cooler, so there was not problem with them getting hot waiting. Many of the girls jumping against my daughter thought she got a raw deal and said they would have waited.
To end this discussion, because I did what I set out to do, I hope I got the attention of some people that might think about these issues next year and do something about them. I think they need better speakers in the staging area, maybe better communication between the athletes and the officials when checking in and out. Not all the kids where informed of the rules, or my have misunderstood them. I did not set out offend anyone, if I did so I apoligize, I was standing up for my daughter because I thought she was wronged.
It appears everyone is out to cheat your daughter. I've only seen you post twice on this site and each time it was to complain about officials wronging you and yours. Love the statement about driving 2 hours to the middle school state meet just to bring a pole.
what was wrong with my statement about bringing the poles, our school buses are not allowed to carry poles, plus our school would not provide buses for this meet, I think because it was after the school year. So I did indeed carry the poles to this meet so our athletes, not just my daughter could compete. Actually I also carried a number of the athletes so they could complete
My question is this: what's the point of displaying your displeasure for the officials on here, other then to display your displeasure for the officials? What's the purpose? to bring attention to the inconsistancies at these meets, depending on who the officials are.
Complaining for the sake of complaining isn't very productive. If you're not happy with a given situation get all the facts first then talk with the people involved. Dogging the officials on here doesn't solve a thing.I did address it at the meet and was told sorry the officials have gone home. If our coach had been given an official answer like above, then the issues could have been addressed at the meet. My hope is next year someone will remember my tirad and improve on some of the issues. I could have probably started my post with "I loved the officials at the middle school meet", but no one would have bothered to comment on it...unfortunately in our society the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
96.3% of all the officials at the state meets know the rules very well, probably a lot better then parents that spend 100s of dollars on a pole. you are right about me not knowing the rules, but when I try to look them up or ask other coaches none of the answers I get are the same. There seems to be a lot of gray area.
Appears coach (official) Crist gave your daughter every opportunity to finish out the event in question. To speculate, what happened to your daughter, to the official just wanting to get out of the heat and go home early, is in my opinion a very arrogant statement.You are probably right, going home early was not his objective, but by opening with those comments my post got noticed. My last post was not so arrogant as you say and recieved no feedback. The opportunity given to my daughter was to jump at 8' 6" with her PR being 7'. Note really a chance at that after running a relay race, it was however the correct option by the rules, considering the height had already been raised.
The officials deserve better!I beg to differ, the kids deserve better, the rules are different at every meet you go to, I would be willing to bet if you had asked all the coaches there that day what would happen in that situation less than half could have given you the correct answer.
Again your response concerns me. The fact that you gave pole vault athletes as long as they wanted to get their jumps in during the regional is not to be the judgment call of the official. Here are the time limits from the NFHS rule book:
ART. 5… Contestants shall report promptly to the event judge at the designated location when the event is announced. A competitor shall initiate a trial that is carried to completion within:
a. One and one-half minutes in the pole vault.
b. One minute in all other jumping events, after being called for a trial, unless excused by the event judge to participate in some other event.
However, when three or fewer competitors remain in the competition, the high jump competitors will be allowed three minutes and those in the pole vault four minutes to initiate a jump. When one competitor remains in the high jump, he/she will be allowed up to five minutes and the pole vaulter six minutes to initiate a jump. The competitor may elect to pass a trial which must be communicated to the event judge before the clock is started.
Nowhere in the rules is the allowance for the official to allow an indeterminate amount of time to allow the athlete to get their best jump. Over the last fifteen years, pole vaulting, of all events, has been concerned with liability. Pole vault officials and coaches are majorly concerned with a proper amount of warmup time. Coaches of the better athletes have a major concern because the best athletes pass the earlier heights and have to sit and wait making the warmup for the best vaulters a mere formality rather than a true warmup for the event other than getting their steps down (which after sitting for an hour may vary anyway). As soon as you allow extra time for one vaulter, you are doing a disservice to the other vaulters. Asking the vaulters if they mind waiting?? They are kids, they don't want to act contrary to a request from an adult, especially the person designated as the head official. Ask the coach of the athlete and I will guarantee the coach will not want the athlete to wait for another athlete when there are specified time limits for an athlete's name being called and beginning the jump.
When athletes end up getting disqualified or having problems at the state meet, most often the first response is "Well, we have done that all season." This seems to be the case here. Gordon Bocock is the high school state meet director. I will have him contact you about the proper procedures in the pole vault so the regionals as well as seaon meets are run in the same fashion as the state high school meet.
As meet director of the middle school state meet, my instructions were that the athlete had to communicate with the officials. This was not done even though the relay area was visible and within 150 feet of the pole vault pit. (The length of the pole vault runway is 120 feet.)
- I appreciate the info, really. I was not running pole vault at regionals. I was running triple / long jump. Our pole vault for regionals was on different day, so no issue with multiple events. I am going to be watching/ working these events for many years, so I want to know the correct way.
I'm glad you brought up warm ups. That also factors in here, as I stated above my daughter was trying to do three events at the same time( I think triple was running late getting started). So after pole vault was going for awhile they called for triple and 4x100. So as you mentioned above she has to check into triple and get her warm ups in before going back to other events, or she only gets one run thru when returning. So by us not knowing the rules being enforced she thought they would wait as they have all year.( she has run three events all year). Not sure if there is an answer on how to make this work when the rules are being followed. Seems like triple and vault rules don't work well together when also running a race.
- on a side note, can you clear up a couple questions? The 2" paddling required around vault mat, does rubber track qualify as padding? Also starting height for high jump at meets, I understand it to be 1 foot below lowest competitors seed height. High School State started only 4" Below our athletes seed height. Alot of competitors no heighted because of this. Thanks for the help.
No, to the best of my knowledge rubberized surface does not count, you need to pad it.
I have never seen any rule about high jump having to start a foot below the lowest seed. That seems way too low. I could see pole vault starting a foot below the lowest seed but not HJ. At 2" increments that would be six heights just to reach the lowest seed.
I believe HJ and PV starting heights are a games committee decision, I'm not aware of any rule on this. When athletes do multiple events, there's always some type of conflict. This is where coaches need to make big decisions and ask whether specific athletes can handle running back and forth between events.
On a lighter note, I do have to congratulate you on what I believe is a forum first. I.e., you're the first person to "dislike" their own post.
- You need to place blame at the correct people and not the official because he did things in the best interest of all the athletes.
As Official wrote "As meet director, this was the information provided to coaches and officials:
ALSO THOSE IN THE FIELD EVENTS, COMMUNICATE WITH THE OFFICIALS, ESPECIALLY IN THE HIGH JUMP. IF AN ATHLETE IS IN THE HIGH JUMP AND RUNNING EVENT, THEY ARE NOT TO CHECK OUT FOR 45 MINUTES WHILE THE HEATS ARE BEING LINED UP AND RUN. THEY ARE TO CHECK IN WITH THE RUNNING EVENT CLERK, LET THAT CLERK KNOW THEY ARE RETURNING TO THE FIELD EVENT TO COMPLETE THEIR JUMPS. THEY NEED TO BE BACK TO THE RUNNING EVENT WHEN THE HEATS LEAVE THE CLERKING AREA. IT IS NOT THE ATHLETE’S OPTION AS TO WHEN THEY ARE RESTED UP TO GET BACK TO THE FIELD EVENTS. IF THEY ARE NOT BACK TO THE EVENT, THE BAR WILL GO UP FOR THEIR REMAINING JUMP(S)."
So if you want to blame someone- blame the coach for not telling your athletes that a strict time limit was going to be followed and that checking out for a race did not give them a pass until that race was FINISHED as is the case with smaller meets where the time limit would not be exceeded because there are not multiple heats to deal with. I know who was involved in this case and the male pole vaulter from your school did the exact same thing. Luckily for him, it was at lower heights and probably served him well that he was passed over and then just vaulted at the higher height, which he cleared easily. When I saw the male athlete leave I was thinking how the coaches didn't do a very good job of telling him to check in but then return to vault because the wait would be very long & this very thing could happen.
You can also blame yourself as parents for not being well-aquainted with vertical jumps being different rules compared to horizontal jumps. The bar cannot go back down except for a jump off for 1st place. This makes being present at vault/high jump as much as possible a priority to those involved. If you were acquainted with the rules, you could have advised your daughter to go check in with her relay team and then immediately return to vault seeing that it was abundantly clear that checking out & staying would exceed the time limit with multiple heats of the 1600M being run. As a parent when you know the rules, everything that happened in this case was totally predictable and could have easily been avoided.
Or you could blame your athlete. They are instructed on how to check out and knowing that it was a huge meet, the time lag would be way too long- and she could have learned from her male counterpart's experience earlier that morning as he was passed over at a height because he was checked out of pole vault way too long. I know I have personally tracked your daughter down at local pole vault competitions because she would leave pole vault to stand around while multiple heats of the two races before the one she is competing in were being run or she would insist on doing triple jump when there was a 2 hour open pit that had just opened. I did this out of a courtesy for her since she is young but also told her that she shouldn't stay away from pole vault just because she checked out for a race when so much time was going to pass before her actual race. In other words, I tried to tell her how to avoid this kind of thing in the future. The other athletes I came in contact with this year were very conscientious about trying to be present at pole vault at all times. I have also officiated other events and seen how high jumpers will run back and forth multiple times between jump events because they know it is unacceptable to be checked out of that event too long and hold everyone else up. The only reason pole vault was finished early at most of the meets you attended was due to the fact that there are not many vaulters- officiate high jump ONE time and you know exactly why vertical jumps require strict time limits- I remember the official for Regional HJ was desperately trying to finish before he lost the light because the number of jumpers makes this competition run long.
For pole vaulters it is actually a safety issue if there is so much time between vaults. The event is such a Goldilock's effect of right pole with right approach and take off, at least for those bending the pole. Long delays can truly affect this timing and it could mean a child not penetrating enough (and possibly falling into the box) or too much because it had been so long since their last vault. The athletes' safety should be the officials priority and the official did his job well in this case. Take it as a good lesson learned that all athletes need to be aware of the rules of their events and be responsible for the outcome if they don't bother to learn the rules.
My thoughts exactly about the padding, but at High School State this year they thought otherwise. This is what I don't understand about how vague some of the rules are. Also the high jump issue, our athlete had only hit 5'10" once this season at Regionals. His highest before that was 5'4" so starting at 5' 6" was not good for him and a few others. Thanks for the rule info.
Thats what I get for reading this stuff on my phone..HA-HA pushed the wrong button looking for reply. I personally would rather my daughter not run the relay, but we are a small team and she is a decent runner.
- Starting height for the high jump at state is 1 foot below the automatic standard. It is 2 feet below in pole vault.
- quote from coachhuz:You can also blame yourself as parents for not being well-aquainted with vertical jumps being different rules compared to horizontal jumps. The bar cannot go back down except for a jump off for 1st place. This makes being present at vault/high jump as much as possible a priority to those involved. If you were acquainted with the rules, you could have advised your daughter to go check in with her relay team and then immediately return to vault seeing that it was abundantly clear that checking out & staying would exceed the time limit with multiple heats of the 1600M being run. As a parent when you know the rules, everything that happened in this case was totally predictable and could have easily been avoided. I never once in this post claimed to know the rules, I actually was asking for clarication of the rules, I do know that once the pole height goes up it does not go back down, I did not ask for that to happen, my coach did. I previously stated this above.
quote from coachhuz: Or you could blame your athlete. They are instructed on how to check out and knowing that it was a huge meet, the time lag would be way too long- and she could have learned from her male counterpart's experience earlier that morning as he was passed over at a height because he was checked out of pole vault way too long. I know I have personally tracked your daughter down at local pole vault competitions because she would leave pole vault to stand around while multiple heats of the two races before the one she is competing in were being run or she would insist on doing triple jump when there was a 2 hour open pit that had just opened. I did this out of a courtesy for her since she is young but also told her that she shouldn't stay away from pole vault just because she checked out for a race when so much time was going to pass before her actual race. Instead of blameing my daughter, how about if I blame you, in your own statement above it sounds like you are the reason we didn't know the rule. You chose not to enforce it or even talk to the coach or myself about this possible issue at future meets. Also not sure if you are aware that in order to get run thrus and your steps down on triple jump you have to do it at the beginning of the event, so she was not standing around as you say, she was running her butt off between three events, both at state and earlier in the year when you tracked her down. This happens when one or more of the events is off schedule. Maybe for safety of the vaulters the rule about not moving the height back down should be revisited, at least at the high school and below level..
teamkykingStarting height for the high jump at state is 1 foot below the automatic standard. It is 2 feet below in pole vault.
by automatic standard, is that seeded height?
The "automatic standard" is actually an outdated term but still in the KHSAA procedures. It was based on the five year average of fifth places in the state meet. In other words, if an athlete was in a tough region, meeting this standard guaranteed a spot in the state meet regardless of the number of competitors that beat the athlete. The KHSAA games committee determines the starting height of the competition. The general rule used to be 2 inches below the lowest seed. I have seen boys qualify for the state meet at 5 feet out of a weak regional. However, with a minimum of 24 competitors, the KHSAA committee looked at the minimum heights for starting each class. In other words, qualifying gets an athlete in to the state meet but it does not guarantee them a clearable height. Eastern Relays does this as well with the minimum entry height being 5-8 and the starting height being 5-8 as well.
Without question, it's the responsibility of the coach to know the rules, and as I said above, the responsbility of the coach to submit entries that athletes can handle. In reading your comments, two things seem pretty clear.
First, the rules were clearly followed and your coach is clearly also not familiar enough with those rules - at least as they pertain to PV. Asking for the bar to be lowered at a Championship meet is the equivalent of stopping a meet to ask whether your kid can be switched from lane 8 to lane 4. I don't think you see this as an excuse as much as you were simply complaining about it, but it's very common for meets to bend or even ignore rules during the regular season. E.g., I know a few coaches who think mandatory blocks in the 400 is a dumb rule, so there are times when we run meets where we leave "blocks" in the 400 as optional. If one of the girls I coach never ends up using blocks in any 400 race during the season, however, it's on me when we get to State and she has no clue how to use those blocks.
Second, your coach miscalculated your daughter's ability to perform in the events where she was entered. Plenty of coaches seem to look at entries in terms of what an athlete is good at, but fail to account for how those entries are likely to go on the day of the meet. E.g., we had a HJer who made State that had been running on our 4 x 200 all season long. When our 4 x 200 made it to State, I had to consider whether this girl could handle running back and forth during her event - most likely at a point where she started reaching the scoring heights in HJ. We decided it wasn't worth the risk, so we substituted a girl for her on the relay. Your coach may very well have put a lot of thought into his/her entries, but in my opinion still miscalculated your daughter's ability to shuttle herself around. That's obviously a great learning experience for everyone though as she moves forward.
Although I think the "you aren't in it for the kids" comment is valid in some cases, that kind of comment is usually made by people who don't get their way on something, and in some cases by people who expect the world to revolve around them and only them. I'm not saying that's what you're doing here, not at all, I'm speaking generally. What's assumed is that people should bend over backwards, overlook rule violations, etc, etc, etc, so that kids who can't or don't follow the rules can still compete. At times, that's a good thing. E.g., in some low key dual meet, I think you do whatever you can within reason to ensure that athletes get their opportunities. If the 4 kids on one relay team don't have matching uniforms, then oh well, I say let 'em run. That changes when you get to big meets or championship events. Just because the officials might tell that same relay team they can't run unless their uniforms match, however, it doesn't mean the official hates kids or isn't in it for the kids. The best possible competitive environment is where everyone is held to the same standard, and everyone knows in advance what that standard will be.
One extension of the "you aren't in it for the kids" comment is over the demeanor and professionalism of officials. In all honesty, pointing out that there are officials who act like big fish in a little pond is not exactly the equivalent of discovering a new planet or finding a cure for cancer. We all know it, it's not exactly revelatory news. So yes, while there are officials who act as though their $30 stipend and free Gatorades are conditioned on an ability to intimidate HS girls at check-in, the overwhelming majority do an exceptional job and really act like they care. Putting myself in their place, I wouldn't want to do the job, because I doubt I could avoid using my non-sarcastic, slightly condescending voice in situations where - for example - a coach asked me to lower the bar in PV. In that regard, a multitude of officials are better people than I'll ever be.
- That is probably more like the statement I should have made. But not knowing the rules lead me to be a little hot, I do apologize to the officials that perform their jobs by the rules. It seems I was mislead by the regular season meets. I plan on learning as much as I can in the off season to help the coach ensure the kids know the rules.
And if I am needed to help in other meets I can get the rules out to other teams, so they are ready for state. Thanks everyone for all the feedback
- Instead of blameing my daughter, how about if I blame you, in your own statement above it sounds like you are the reason we didn't know the rule. You chose not to enforce it or even talk to the coach or myself about this possible issue at future meets. Also not sure if you are aware that in order to get run thrus and your steps down on triple jump you have to do it at the beginning of the event, so she was not standing around as you say, she was running her butt off between three events, both at state and earlier in the year when you tracked her down. This happens when one or more of the events is off schedule. Maybe for safety of the vaulters the rule about not moving the height back down should be revisited, at least at the high school and below level..
You can certainly blame me if that will make you feel better. At the smaller meets we do try to get the athletes (as they even tried at MS State to call her back) if that is possible and trust me, if she was gone 45 minutes or even 20 minutes waiting on her race without coming back, the bar would have gone up even at the smallest meet. At smaller meets, checking out & doing another race doesn't pose a problem- it's only when the meet is bigger and multiple heats of longer races cause too long of a lag between checking out & the running of the race involved-it should be abundantly clear that small meet procedure won't work at a meet like MS state. If you really want to make that leap of blaming me for being the source of her failure to understand the difference of checking out & staying at a small meet vs at MS state meet, then so be it.
I feel like I did TRY to convey this information to her. When I tracked her done at the one meet she WAS standing around- at the staging area (infield in this case about 50 yards from where I was) chatting with her relay team while another heat of 1600M was going off after she'd already been gone since 1st call. This is when I explained to her that the bar can't go up & down so whenever she can get vaults in by returning if they just have her waiting it is best to do. While she was about to vault, I was then being screamed at from across the fence about how she was at triple jump (which wasn't the case) by one of her parents and it made me think how your daughter needs to speak up for herself when she is competing. If she was too tired to vault, which she wasn't- she made the bar on her first attempt- SHE needs to be the one communicating this to the official. This is exactly what I am saying about blaming the athlete- it is ultimately up to them to understand their events and obey the rules since they are really the only ones able to communicate efficiently with the official. The coaches ARE told the rules in the information packets they are given for the meet, they usually have a coaches meeting reiterating rules right before the meet, and some rules never change- like the bar can't go back down. The coaches can't be at every event so it is important that the athletes are well-informed. Our head coach didn't tell us that there would not be a coaches' box at MS state for pole vault but it was in the information given to him, so when told to move to behind the fence it was obeyed. So it was up to our athlete to communicate with the official on all points during the pole vault since even the coaches weren't allowed in the area. Even the statement given out to coaches states clearly that it is the responsibility of the athlete to communicate with the official. If you want to blame me for your daughter not being able to make the connection that leaving pole vault for a small meet may be different than a big meet then that's fine. I feel like we have gone out of our way as a family of jumpers to help your daughter and this is how we are treated. It is especially ironic since the meets that I officiated that involved tracking down your daughter were not meets hosted by my own school but by YOUR school- maybe YOU should have been officiating them? This is the thanks we get for helping you & your daughter out. NICE!!
Maybe for safety of the vaulters the rule about not moving the height back down should be revisited, at least at the high school and below level.. This statement shows that you really don't understand vertical jumps. The reason why the bar cannot move up & down is because there can be slight discrepancies in the placement of the standard heights when moved. To make it fair, the rule was put in place so that everyone is jumping at the exact same placement rather than an approximation of the same height. The reason why the time limits are put in place is for the safety of the vaulters. The time limit for checking out is to keep the vaulters not checking out from getting too cold while they wait for the vaulter to run his/her race. The additional recovery time for vertical jumps is also put in place for safety reasons.
- I'm good with partially blaming you, it should have been obvious that we didn't know what the rule was or we would not have been raising a rukus. I tried to hunt you and the other meet Coach down afterwards to find out why she was pulled from the run. You both had left, I still have not found anything in writing in a rule book about this situation. My daughter had actually just finished he'd warmups at triple. Which equates to about five 50 meter sprints. So she went to race staging to catch her breath. I felt it was unsafe for her to vault until she caught her breath. So the blame that I put on you is you could have explained this to her coach or myself...nothing more. I take blame for being stupid in an event that my daughter does, but am more than willing to learn. I mean no ill will toward you as a person, only as a coach concerned about safety.